The DPS Warrior.

AshpawCoyote

Hello M&M Friends,

I want to play a DPS warrior in M&M however when I look up the skills there are a lot of tanking and damage mitigation abilities. Does anyone know if the warrior has been so locked into a tanking roll there is no rout to be a DPS class still?

My THING is Charge. I was a WoW Warrior savant, I can't tell you how many times I pressed 'charge' in that game. Enough to notice Fighter had the ability--It existing has me locked into a usual hyper focus. So of course, I want to know everything about the class and there are little to no resources outside the game I have noticed.

So again, does the DPS warrior exist? Is it just a matter of using a really strong weapon or is the difference between a dps class like rogue vs us daunting?

Thanks all.

Gray

AshpawCoyote

I assume you mean fighter. You are a tank, and you will know it. Your dps will not touch a dedicated dps class. But I have heard that amongst the tanks, fighters do the most damage? Don't take that as fact from me, though.

I do wish there was a bit of specialization within the classes, though, so that things like this would...be a thing.

AshpawCoyote

Yes, I did mean Fighter. It's hard to break a habit since 2004. To what you said, I figured as much. I have even read the developers using firm language about the Fighter being the tank of tanks. While it is interesting Fighter is doing the greatest damage among tanks, my aim is to perform a valuable roll as a Fighter without tanking. I really don't see that happening. This is a shot in the dark that maybe a few players in the beta know.

ty for responding.

JankyJux

I don't say this to dismiss your desires and/or concerns.

I recommend checking out other classes to find the gameplay feel you seek. Many people have set perceptions on classes and those perceptions don't always align with the developers' vision. That's not bad or good, it just is.

Ask yourself what you like and dislike about, I assume, the WoW warrior. Make a list. Read class descriptions & deep dives to see if something aligns.

Classes to consider for melee DPS: Monk, Spellblade, Beastmaster, Ranger, Rogue.

Graves

BST in particular does get Pounce, which is basically Charge, if you're okay with the idea of being a Sword Lad with an animal friend.

Wall

JankyJux

Something to consider is that the low-fantasy of 'dude with plate armor and a sword' is among the most popular archetype in virtually every RPG setting that has provided relevant telemetry/metrics. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a game where some sort of 'Warrior' or 'Paladin' style archetype was not the most popular. There is simply a large percentage of the market who enjoy RPGs from the perspective of the most 'baseline' archetype. None of the classes you suggested fill that fantasy.

For me personally, the appeal has nothing to do with the mechanical nature of the class. One could argue that the revamped Beastmaster is the closest mechanical equivalent to 'martial two handed dps' that the game offers, but I have zero desire to play it due to the fantasy it provides - despite it being largely what I want from a gameplay perspective.

I've played Fighter in M&M from way back before they had the current Frenzy/Shield Bash ability set, including the Everquest equivalent, and it's what I planned on playing when the game goes live, but based on the wording of the class preview (more shield focused, retaliatory in nature, less personal damage output) I might be stuck playing something else - most likely Paladin or Shadowknight. Obviously this is purely speculatory in nature as none of the aforementioned classes have had concrete details regarding their reworks made public, but hopefully something exists for players like myself and the OP (and likely many, many others)

Des

Sadly, WoW did it right with 3 specs. You spend the first 10 levels as your base class, then you flower gloriously into something new. Every level gives you a point to toss into something that powers you up or gives you an ability.

M&M has very little customization and its kind of painful.

Why explicitly limit people? Give them an avenue to at least tailor their own experience. You dont need to create new classes, but just give us options.

DPS Tank ~ Special stances on a long CD
INT healing ~ bubbles/runes/HP transfer
INT melee DPS ~ Bone Knight (NickHotz)
Evasion Tank ~ Rogue/Monk CDs/special taunts

These mixes by no means need to be on par to something dedicated to 1 role. All they need to do is target specific popular class fantasy and all it costs is a specific item, AA or another layer of customization tied to levels or gods.

I will be sad to read the Fighter update, knowing what they want to do with it but thats OK. There is a lot of good too.

AshpawCoyote

Thanks all.

Hey, the developers could add specs later on, we never know. If it were up to me, in addition to a DPS spec I would definitely consider a debuffer hard CC role.
Imagine a channeled ability which basically makes the Fighter 'pin down' their opponent. The opponent stays CC'd, the Fighter can't move. Neither are doing damage to one another. Almost sounds silly. But mostly sounds cool to use that on a giant sized enemy.

I did consider Beastmaster for Pounce specifically. It is a good idea. Heck, I raised a german shepherd, that takes a lot of skill.

teers82

think WoW has a dps warrior...... here, fighters are tanks

Cherubdown

While I understand where you're coming from - the idea of a strictly melee, no-magic, brawler - you're looking for the aesthetics of a brute that whacks. I get it because I want the same thing... but I don't think they want a dps Fighter, since there are already so many other dps classes to roll. Probably the closest thing you're looking for is a Spellblade for melee weapon combat. Perhaps this will change in the future, but I doubt it.

Nazgrimn

I think the lack of customization is going to be a downfall in the long run, unless they implement something like AAs in EQ.
Fingers crossed they add something like it. Sooner than later.

Des

Nazgrimn yeah, absolutely love the AA system, but it was a hit/miss implementation. WoW's class points was similar but didnt go deep enough, eventually becoming 'solved' builds. It would be really nice if we got a hybrid of the two systems. Impactful points for character development at max level, but not a need to grind them out like Diablo Paragons or the original implementation where they eventually just auto-granted you AAs....

Jeembo

DPS Fighter is effectively dead unless there is a way to generate vengeance that does not require a mob to attack you. Also bringing more than one Fighter to a group or raid is killed by this.

Briggs

I would also like for Fighter to somehow be able to fit into a DPS role when they want to. That's what stances should generally be. Unsure of why they aren't willing to do this. I think all the tanky classes should be able to DPS when needed to some degree, Fighter should be among the best at that. Basic martial fighter should be very skilled at using all the weapons available to them to inflict the largest amount of damage or be sturdy with armor and a shield. Fighters should be at least somewhat proficient with bows as well. There are some dedicated skills for fighters to dual weild, but no way for them to gain vengeance without taking damage which seems to be an oversight? Maybe allow them to self damage for stacks? That seems more similar to SK playstyle tho. I think in offensive stance Vengeance should maybe be called "Rancor" due to being angry at being ignored? Or "spite" or even "poise" to show how they fighter is able to focus on their attacks more than defense or retaliation? Just some ideas.

Xrr

I agree 100%.

If vengeance becomes a core part of the fighter's mechanics....

then having 2 or more fighters (or other tank classes) might cause some level of passive-aggressive-griefing of threat control...

Both fighters would have to fight each other for threat so they can take MORE damage - to get more vengeance stacks.

But like I said earlier - there's other tanks... and it's not just a 2+ fighter per group problem.

Which means a shadow knight. inquisitor, paladin (or w/e tank class) taking threat away from you technically could result in you getting less stacks.

tuesday

I think the goal might be to require every raid to have exactly one fighter to act as main tank, and no more.

Jeembo

That is a terrible goal but that is what they have accomplished.

Des

[unknown] Yeah, this wasnt thought out and I cant see a reason to keep it as-is. Vengeance should be duration based in a fight, like Rage in WoW. You build this up statically through combat, in addition to being hit. I see no valid reason why they're limiting it like this but to grief the class.