Shaman Deep Dive!

Derelicte-Chief-Elf-Judge

https://monstersandmemories.com/class-shaman-deep-dive

ThatGMApollo

Really feels like the gameplay loop of using canni has been gutted. That addictive, ride-the-line style of balancing life and mana to keep your group moving is gone with nothing to replace it? It seems like the 45-second CD is the wrong direction with this honestly, adjust the numbers and keep the timing, because it at least felt smooth and enjoyable compared to the sit-and-med style of druid/cleric.

Arkamedeez

ThatGMApollo because it at least felt smooth and enjoyable compared to the sit-and-med style of druid/cleric.

Are you aware of the changes to druid and cleric?

kiz

Sooo, with the 45s consume cooldown. There is no more canni dancing?

Greater Pact of Renewal costs 328 mana, and we get 360 mana from consume. So only 32 mana every 45s. so 4.2 mana per tick. Or you have to mem your lvl 12 heal which costs 75 mana.

Or you just press it once and then let regen slowly push your health back. So basically at lvl 57 if you press consume exactly every 45s you basically have a 10.9 mana per tick regen buff... I guess the class fantasy of consuming into your mana efficient hot is not going to be a thing 🙁

We are basically just a clr/dru now.

kiz

And don't forget to set a timer to hit that consume every 45s like a wack-a-mole 🙁

Azaya

Not a fan of the new Consume cooldown. I would prefer EQ style Canni, we had 12 Second Consume, now at 45 seconds I can't actually use up my HP bar anymore. I regen the HP back before the cooldown is over.

It really does kind of break what was a fun game loop.

I think I would be fine giving up the extra regen to have a faster consume, that I might actually be able to kill myself with.

ThatGMApollo

I agree with Azaya, I would much rather see the numbers on canni cut by a 1/4 versus the CD increased by 4x as a starting point. The 45 sec CD really seems like a misplay.

Growlron

This Shaman deep dive REEEKKS of.. we got tired and phoned it in.

What happened to getting rid of Shapeshifting?
What happened to making DoTs the center of dmg? .. we removed 1 DD line and renamed another.

We waited months for a flavor pass, some light balancing.. and Removing our SPIRIT pet. Oh and finally adding group buffs weve been begging for since day 1.

Where is the spirit theming? Where is the spirit dmg?

Why am I summoning food and drink? Im not a summoner. You made that clear when you ripped the SPIIIIRRRIIITTT PEEETTT out of our hands.

Removing Invis vs Beast is just a slap in the face.

WHERE IS THE SPIRIT????
"Manifests spirit animals as expressions of ancestral force in their spells, but not as pets"

"Distinction as a healer from the Cleric and Druid"
Where? Where is the distinction? Sure its different the Cleric.

ITS A DRUID WITH LESS DMG OPTIONS AND LESS COOL SHIT!

And research?? The hell is this a Wizard??

Does Ritual of Escape work against Beasts? I sure as hell hope so. But giving that you took away Invis Beast and it doesnt say beasts, I doubt it. Useless in the Quarry or similar locales.

I am just absolutely floored, THIS is what we got after all this waiting. I really thought, the fact that shaman came later, that there was so much more time and thought being put into it.. You could have done this class first, in a week. Rename some spells, rebalance a few CDs, strip it of a key part of its identity.

They DOUBLED DOWN on shapeshifting that they said was leaving. And gave us a class quest for it.

We wanted class quests to unlock.. SPIRIT pets. Not shapeshifting which should belong to DRUIDS not shaman.

GnomeChomsky

Maybe I am blind I am an old fart did we lose our group heal?

TheStranger

Growlron The Deep Dive clearly states they got rid of invis vs beasts because you have invis.

TheStranger

GnomeChomsky Rite of Mending is a group heal.

GnomeChomsky

TheStranger oh wow have to wait untill 28

Skritch

GnomeChomsky
Rite of Mending is at level 20. 174 mana for 61/6s over 24s or 244 total.

Kellindell

What is the shamans "mechanic?" Everyone but inq and shaman were granted a mechanic. Fighters got veng, druids got seasons, BMs got different pet types and classes and auras. Wizards got research and runes. Rogues got their poisons etc.... Why do these two reworks lack a mechanic?

kiz

What I would have loved to have seen:

Another hot. 48 seconds duration, 0.5-0.6 x the healing, 0.7 x the mana cost. Same cast time. So long duration, weaker, more mana efficient.
Removed the cooldown on consume. The values can been changed a bit if you like.

Why this would be cool:
You can throw the long duration efficient heal on the tank at the start of the fight. After getting the mob slowed, then maybe that heal is enough against trash mobs. However on harder mobs/named/multiple mobs you would also throw your normal hot on them. Now with 2 hots you have good healing. Hopefully you would not even need to mem a direct heal with this setup.

For canni dancing, you can put your long duration/weak/efficient hot on yourself and spam consume into it. You have the fun risk/reward of potentially killing yourself/getting hit when low from a mob etc. But the reward of having the best mana regen of any healer (or potentially of any class). You could also put your normal hot on and canni into that for less efficiency but more safety. This would give you player agency rather than just playing wack-a-mole every 45s.

"That would make shaman the best healer in the game and everyone would play shaman" - No, it makes shaman a very busy healer with high APM. A lot of people do not like high APM classes and prefer to just med most of the time. But it would give those who like higher APM and min maxing to squeeze more out of their class. Also, every class have their own unique benefits which means they will always be desired anyway.

Growlron

Kellindell We didnt get one.

I sent them a very detailed suggestion for a Totem mechanic.

TheStranger

[unknown] It would be nice to see more differentiation between healers...all roles really. Class homogenization is killing games and homogenization of all types is killing the genre. I always liked how EQ2 did it, though I might be ignorant on it's effectiveness. Cleric - Direct Heals and Defensive buffs (reactionary playstyle). Druid - HoTs and Offensive buffs (preparation playstyle). Shaman - Wards/Shields and a mix of offense and defense buffs (Mix of reaction and prep).

I dunno...perhaps a bit of time in EA to see how these healers play and function is needed. Although Shaman is kind of sounding a bit too close to Druid for my liking. I'm open to being totally wrong about that though...

Name

Why does the group stat buff require a reagent? You already put them through "spell research". A reagent is so unnecessary and annoying.

Jephry

I didn't get all my spells from Gedric - anyone else?

Nevardian

My first take going into the new Shaman changes:

With the changes to the consume line, the shaman felt pretty poor to play. I gave it about 5-6 hours tonight, playing at level 60 against the Fallen Watch green con/blue con mobs and I felt pretty useless. All of our spells are mana intensive, and with the loss of our pet, we don't have any good damage output other than the new dot lines. I found myself attempting to slow mobs, then not being able to sit to med or heal because I have all the agro. I'll give it another round after i recoup from tonight's mayhem. =D

Cheers
-Nev