Today is a good day

Unchainedfury

Are you aware that an Enchanters' CC is typically only required for the break-in of a camp?

After that, literally any class can solo-pull on respawn, even clerics.

What "Support" do you want Enchanters to do, then? I'm genuinely curious

EDIT: Added Fell to the discussion (I know your thoughts on adding more CC meta to the game, specifically asking in current state)

Transcendent

Leum schadenfreude isn't a virtue.

Leum

Listen guys. If the only way you can have fun is to play a class that has the power of 4 players (or even 2 like you guys seem to be pushing for) that is just sad. I honestly feel sorry for people like this, many of you were jerks during the original debate and pretty much what I expected happened. I'm happy. I hope you guys learn to live with walking among us mortals or move on.

Fell

Unchainedfury CC is typically only required for the break-in of a camp?
After that, literally any class can solo-pull on respawn

By far my biggest request is to add more camps that require EFFORT to reach, usually a dungeon crawl of some sort. Right now 98% of camps in game -- even in dungeons -- you simply stroll up to, plop down and begin farming. Sometimes you need invis to get there, but that's about it. And, if you need to crawl through a few areas to get to a camp, then you need CC for more than just an initial break.

Another idea is to get rid is this insane idea that all spawns must be perfectly timed. If mobs in a camp have a certain degree of randomness to their spawn, then there'll be times when 2 or 3 spawn at once, so that even "broken" camps require at least minimal CC. I know EQ had fixed spawns, but holy jebus, random number generators are lot cheaper today than thy were in 1999.

Leum . I honestly feel sorry for people like this, many of you were jerks during the original debate

Well we certainly appreciate you showing us the meaning of the word "jerk", but I've been for months one of the loudest advocating for a charm nerf. That doesn't change the fact that charm wasn't simply nerfed, it was broken outright.

Leum

I want them to make CC a MUST. They are making harder content now, and I expect that to continue. The old world will need a rework when they can spare the time/resources. I want Chanters to truly shine as masters of the battlefield, not a group in and of themselves.

Leum

Fell I like the idea of variance on all spawns.

Unchainedfury

Fell

I understand your perspective, yet I'm genuinely curious what "Support" are Enchanters supposed to do once a camp is broken, in the current state of the game?

Unchainedfury

Leum

Fell

What do players do when CC is a must and no CC is available?

BDCRetro

Unchainedfury There are more forms of CC than just mezing. Lulls and roots are available to many classes, or using a monk to single pull on top of the mez capable classes.

Once camps are broke, stagger the pulls so things are not repopping on top of you.

Fell

Unchainedfury What do players do when CC is a must and no CC is available?

Glad you asked! The same thing they do when healing is a must and no healing is available -- choose a different camp.

CC doesn't contribute damage. If camps didn't require CC, ALL GROUPS would refuse to add a CC class and pick a damage class instead. And, as @BDCRetro has noted, there are many more forms of CC than enchanter mez. Most of the classes in the game can do some form of CC. How you think clerics would react if most classes had heals?

Some camps should need little or no CC. Some should require moderate CC. And a few should absolutely demand a high level of crowd control.

kridak

Choose bard or inq for cc...they can help with damage.

Fell

BDCRetro Once camps are broke, stagger the pulls so things are not repopping on top of you.

I absolutely think all camps -- at least in dungeons which are intended to be harder -- should be random spawn timers, not fixed. That way you'll need to at least partially rebreak a camp every few cycles.

Unchainedfury

BDCRetro I'm fully aware and Concur with your statement, yet staying on the topic of Enchanters, mesmerize, and what the enchanter role is after breaking a camp, specifically, and in the current state of the game.

Fell

Please answer the question on what "Support" Enchanters are to provide once a camp has been broken, and in the current state of the game.

Fell

Unchainedfury Please answer the question on what "Support" Enchanters are to provide once a camp has been broken, and in the current state of the game.

Sorry, I thought my answer was obvious. In my opinion, a camp that's permanently broken is, if you'll excuse the play on words, "broken". What sort of absurd game mechanic is it when a camp is 10 seconds of excitement, followed by three hours of mindless repetitive, 100% predictable drudgery? Random spawn timers would go a long way to correct that.

I don't mean fully random, of course. But mobs that spawn in 8 minutes should instead spawn, say, randomly between 7-9 minutes.

Leum

I sure is a good thing the game is in development and things can change. Current state of most of the world is pretty weak. Lots of super powerful items at easy camps that Chanters and Necros could solo/duo. Let's do what a lot of you have suggested and bring the difficulty level up, then CC will shine (again).

Unchainedfury

Fell

You're conflating your vision with the current state of the game in a group setting. Continuously deflecting on-topic specific questions back towards your vision does not benefit or further the discussion. We are all quite aware of your vision.

I think the community would still like to know what, specifically, an Enchanters' "Support" looks like within the current meta, NOT your vision, after a camp is broken in a group setting. I know I still don't know what that entails, from your perspective.

By your own advocacy, you want the CC meta increased substantially across the entire game. Are you taking into consideration other players' availability, time/RL/social restrictions, and choices of play-styles fitting their particular mood / path of enjoyment? It doesn't appear so.

Fell choose a different camp.

But, you want this CC/Mez meta implemented game-wide.

Is the response to all of these players, "too bad, so sad"? That's one helluva restriction your vision presents. It would effectively restrict half of all players towards your visions' meta, especially Solo oriented classes, adventurers, and explorers.

Do you understand that imposing a restriction of that magnitude and significance is not beneficial to the player base, thus the game?

Now, you want random respawn timers so players can never "get in the groove". I don't disagree this could be fun and rewarding for particular zone areas, presenting a more nuanced gaming experience, as long as players know what they're getting into and keep it minimal. However, a blanket implementation of this vision is counter-culture to the "Classic MMO Experience" presented by NWC. Dictating game-play pacing should completely be upon the group, once the relevant minimum requirements for that particular camp are satisfied, not some in-game Mechanic constantly breaking your social experience.

Fell In my opinion, a camp that's permanently broken is, if you'll excuse the play on words, "broken". What sort of absurd game mechanic is it when a camp is 10 seconds of excitement, followed by three hours of mindless repetitive, 100% predictable drudgery?

Brother Fell, this is a Classic MMO Experience game. You.....Socialize! Shoot the breeze, look up topics the group is discussing and provide your thoughts, then you and the group carry on into other areas of discussion, suggest your own topics of interest, stop for a brief "OH SHIT" moments, take breaks, rinse and repeat. This results in a FUN, rewarding, and PROVEN gaming experience. Ya know, the entire goal here?

Thank you for the discussion, I appreciate your time.

Stabby

Seems our rain of steel and deadly throw got a bump. did some testing with iron/steel throwing daggers with the 7/40 base throwing dagger that you can buy for 1cp a piece and..... interesting numbers.... seems that rain of steel hits and crits for more with iron and steel. getting numbers from 50-80++ crits. but the deadly throw the lowest tier throwing dagger (the 7/40) is hitting for 180 crits (with mob below of at 25% HP) obviously still a strong "pvp" skill . Deadly throw needs be at a range, not melee distance. so running out of auto attakcs will actually loose you dps, BUT Waiting for your Stealth and twin blades CD you can pepper in a rain of steel, if all three throws crit thats roughly a extra 300~ DMG.

better then nothing i guess

Fell

Unchainedfury You're conflating your vision with the current state of the game in a group setting.

The wall of words doesn't alter the facts. Devs have transformed enchanters into a pure CC class. For that to be viable, we need camps that require CC.

But, you want this CC/Mez meta implemented game-wide.

You missed the part where I said some camps should require little to no CC, some should require moderate CC, while only a few need heavy CC.

Now, you want random respawn timers so players can never "get in the groove".

A certain degree of randomness only. If you break a 6-mob camp it'll stay broken. But you'll never be guaranteed a 100% steady stream of single pulls ... there will be times the spawn times will overlap enough to get 2-3 mobs.

Brother Fell, this is a Classic MMO Experience game. You.....Socialize! Shoot the breeze, look up topics the group is discussing and provide your thoughts,...

This is still a game, not social media. If you think the enchanter's role in a group should be simply to "shoot to breeze" while others kill mobs, then I don't know what to say to that.

I think the community would still like to know what, specifically, an Enchanters' "Support" looks like within the current meta, NOT your vision

You repeatedly asked me to lay out "my vision" on this .. then complain when I do?

Unchainedfury

...off on a tangent and unwilling to have a good-faith discussion...Noted.

Fell The wall of words doesn't alter the facts. Devs have transformed enchanters into a pure CC class. For that to be viable, we need camps that require CC.

I guess reading is hard, especially for a/former teacher?

Finally, I'm glad you admit the current meta has nothing in place for an Enchanters' "Support" role in a group, outside of a buff-bot, once a camp has been broken. That's why they have Charm, hello? Gives them something to do, if they so choose to go that route. That's also the reason you deflect to your vision, because you're fully aware of it.

Fell You missed the part..

It's irrelevant to the Current Meta. You're putting the cart before the horse, and this is typical of those advocating for limiting/removing options. Thank you for admitting you're a part of this crowd.

Fell A certain degree of randomness only..

Sure, eliminate the social aspect of the game to suit your own wants. Empathy sure is hard.

Fell This is still a game, not social media

I'm perplexed. You've stated you played MMO's 25 years ago, which would have been PRE-social media era, by years. Are you aware that Gaming has always been a form of social media, prior to what is now known as social media? Disregard, I'm aware of your BFA position in discussions, hence your constant deflections.

Fell You repeatedly asked me specifically to lay out "my vision" on this .. then complain when I do?

Never, not once, did I ask you for your vision. I asked you a specific question, repeatedly, and you were incapable or unwilling to answer it, instead choosing to deflect over and over again.

Per my Policy, I don't engage with Bad-Faith Actors, and that's what I consider you as.

I consider this topic fulfilled. However, I will push back on you and others that are in line with your ideals of limiting/removing options to further their own pleasure.

Best of luck to you, Sir.

Fell

Unchainedfury I'm glad you admit the current meta has nothing in place for an Enchanters' "Support" role in a group, outside of a buff-bot, once a camp has been broken

"Admit"? I've been saying this for MONTHS.

That's why they have Charm, hello?

Hello? They just nerfed charm damage to oblivion. No enchanter's going to charm in a group when summon pet + nuke is far safer, far simpler, and just as much damage.

It's irrelevant to the Current Meta.

Eh? I think you forgot your own statement. You complained I wanted heavy CC camps to be a "game wide meta". I simply pointed out I've advocated for the exact opposite. Some camps should require it, some should not.

Also, you might reconsider your use of that word "meta" It doesn't mean what you think it means. You also misunderstand the meaning of the word "tangent", when you accuse me of "going off on one". You asked me a question; I answered it.

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