Apparently, I'm really bad at this.

Fell

Why assume I’ve done something wrong?

Because you said you're struggling with "a fight again simple light-green goblin like 15-20 levels under me" while other players "15 levels lower than me are tearing through them with ease."

If so, you ARE doing something wrong. And based on what you said after that -- a complaint about how little melee damage you're doing -- I strongly suspect what it is. Druids are not a melee class. When you're soloing, you basically NEVER want to be in melee range. Either you're kiting, root-rotting, or using a charm pet, and in all three cases, the more distance the better.

@Growlron

More then half of the player base wants to be able to solo.

And more than half the player base -- pretty much all of it, in fact -- CAN solo. They just can't do it as fast or efficiently as they can group.

How do you level an alt without talking your friends into doing it with you?

Easy. You use the LFG tool to find NEW people who are either making alts themselves, or are entirely new players just joining the server.

RogerDabbit

Mesh Not to be argumentative, but: the reason for that situation (being able to go AFK) existing is due to the nature of the game's combat system as an RPG.

I've seen games that blunt this, but it's usually through scaling mobs or including skill-based inputs on top of RPG mechanics (Cyberpunk, Witcher, Kingdom Come, etc.). This game specifically doesn't really allow that kind of skill-based input. Some of the more ham-fisted methods included a minimum % chance to hit and minimum amount of damage per mob that always slightly outpaces player regen.

It really seems like the devs are fighting themselves here, to be honest.

tukor

Fell Honestly, it seems like you don't get the point of my post or you're misunderstanding some of the things I'm saying.
You keep insisting—stubbornly (and I don't know on what idea)—that I'm trying to beat a green mob to death with a stick... and once you fixate on that, naturally, you insist that I shouldn't... but I never said that XD

Please, just read what I'm saying. You can kill the mob with nukes (well, some of them, anyway), but you end up with zero mana—and that's for mobs 20 levels lower.
And IF (I repeat... "AND IF") you run out of mana, obviously your only option left is melee; and OBVIOUSLY we're druids, not DPS, but it's a mob 20 levels lower. For God's sake. I don't know what's so hard to understand?

Yeah, I know, it must be me—maybe I'm not explaining myself well... but damn, you just have to read...

And for the nineteenth time, please don't explain to me how to play a druid...
I'm asking that as a personal favor. Since repeating that I've played druids before isn't working XD

riverbender

Growlron
You are right in terms of studio situations (Bungie outsourcing group organizing to Discord becomes more unforgivable ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU KEEP FLYING STREAMERS OUT TO YOUR STUDIO TO SUPPORT YOUR FAILING GAME WHO IS HE DATING?) but incorrect regarding some significant segment of the player base, especially on the subreddits. I can't comment on Discord because I don't use it but insular cliques aiming for parasocial relationships with the devs seems fractal across game communities and a very "If you're not with me then you're my enemy" Anakin Skywalkerism exists as a general malaise upon the modern gamer social millieu. To some extent who can blame them? If I had the ear of my favorite PBEM dev we'd be in a totally different universe, that being said turns out I'm wrong and 75% of the player base plays solo against AI.
Sorry for hijacking your druid thread. Don't nerf Druid either.

Uberhalf

tukor That's always been a problem with druids. It takes a lot of mana to kill anything and you can't really melee things down. Charm was the viable way to solo and it probably should still be. You just have to charm a mob, attack another mob and let the mob kill your charmed pet, then break charm and kill it. That's not going to help kill multiple lower lvl mobs unfortunately. I think once you get really nice gear you will have a better time.

Fell

tukor

You keep insisting [stubbornly] that I'm trying to beat a green mob to death with a stick... and once you fixate on that, naturally, you insist that I shouldn't... but I never said that XD...

In your first post, friend, you literally said: "even though I'm carrying a decent melee weapon, I barely do any damage to them; I hardly ever land a hit, and it takes forever to kill even a light-green mob in melee combat."

"You can kill the mob with nukes (well, some of them, anyway), but you end up with zero mana—and that's for mobs 20 levels lower."

Again, you're doing it wrong. Druids don't solo with nukes -- those are for fast-dying mobs in groups. Solo you root-rot, kite, or (pre-nerf) charm ... and you can kill blues, not just greens. Your DoT dmg is nearly twice as mana efficient as your nukes. I also wonder if perhaps you're not WIS stacking -- by level 33 you should be working with several time your starting wisdom.

"And for the nineteenth time, please don't explain to me how to play a druid..."

Friend, I'm sorry but I literally laughed aloud at the irony in this, considering the TITLE OF YOUR POST says "I'm really bad at this, maybe I'm doing it wrong".

Fell

Uberhalf

Charm [is] not going to help kill multiple lower lvl mobs unfortunately.

I won't speak as to this last patch, but pre-nerf, charm easily allowed you to kill multiple greens: charm one, force it to get aggro on the rest, and get some distance while they eat the pet alive. When the pet dies and the remainder swarm to you, recharm another and repeat the process.

Fangbang

Uberhalf Uberhalf This is not true. Pre-rework, the bear pet allowed Druid to explore green con areas safely (albeit slowly) without going OOM 3ft in. You could also just root rot and DoTs did enough damage with enough mana efficiency to kill greens at a reasonable pace. Now it would take 3+ minutes or 3+ recasts of both dots to kill a green mob, running you OOM and not giving you time to progress before repops behind. Nukes were too mana heavy, so they’re good for clearing a mob or two but can’t be used to farm at any decent pace or kill groups of green cons. Charm was considered Druid’s “strong solo point” (ignoring the fact that it restricts you to certain locations) and the last remaining solo grind option before the recent charm nerfs.

Uberhalf

Fangbang I kind of forgot about the bear pet. It was pretty weak, but did allow for killing mobs that were low enough. Unfortunately Charm was gutted. I think it will still work for reverse charming, but I don't think it will work for blasting down a bunch of green mobs like it used to.

Uberhalf

Fell I was mostly speaking about charm in it's present form. I haven't played with it on a druid since the change, only an enchanter, but I doubt it's going to help much for a bunch of greens unless they are super low.

Fell

Uberhalf I'm admittedly guessing here, but I don't see that the charm nerf hurts this situation much -- when you have a swarm of green, most of the damage is mob-on-pet, not pet-on-mob. Your pet will do less dmg before it dies...but every dead pet is one more green killed.

tukor

Fell Sir, i get it now. you are just a troll.
I don't mean this in a derogatory way; you're simply one of those posters who likes to belittle others... and who, no matter how many times something is explained—even a hundred times—just won't get it through their thick skulls. You haven't even grasped the point of the original post or what I'm saying, and we're already however many posts deep—lol.
You haven't said a single thing that makes sense yet; you're conflating someone saying a player himself isn't the best with them being new to the game, just so you can swoop in like the resident expert and explain what DPS is—something nobody asked you to do. But you just feel like doing it, right? So forgive me if I'm not interested in wasting time on silly conversations, when there are far more interesting ones right nearby... XD

Like for example:

That's always been a problem with druids. It takes a lot of mana to kill anything and you can't really melee things down >

Yeah thats true. Im not really talking about the speed in wich we kill green mobs down. (Again, for people who don't understand things, like "Fell", unless it's explained to them 40 times: GREEN mobs).
I understand that as druids we already have plenty of things, and high DPS isn't one of them. Its ok.
What bothers me is that mobs 20 levels lower than us can drain our health so easily. (I'm talking about mobs up to level 40 or so; I understand if it happens with lvl 40 mobs to a lvl 60 player.)

Obviously, there’s some sort of mathematical formula involved, and in my opinion, it’s poorly implemented. At "low" levels—when you just want to explore—you run straight into green-tagged mobs meant for absolute beginners; yet, instead of just being background noise, they pester you, aggro onto you, and—if you aren't careful—kill you.

Of course, you do stay alert, so you kill them easily enough. But you’ve just wasted ten minutes taking out mobs that yield no rewards and that you hadn't even intended to engage with, all while burning through your mana. And this doesn't just happen in dungeons; they’re everywhere. It’s happened to me countless times while gathering plants. I’d understand it if they were mobs close to my level, but having three mobs—15 or 20 levels below me—jump me while I’m picking a flower... having to spend minutes fighting them, running out of mana, and even ending up low on health...
And then, when you finish and move on to the next flower, another group of three identical mobs jumps you.

Well, let's just say it isn't exactly fun (that’s actually one of the times I simply logged off).
And I say it’s not fun because, after investing all that time leveling up, it doesn't feel like I'm being rewarded by becoming stronger. It’s not like I’m going to farm mobs that drop... zero loot I’m actually interested in?
And someone will probably say it's like this so you don't farm green mobs? ehem.

Having a pet (the Bear) actually helped a lot. It was not the best pet in the world....
But it had your back, helped to took care of the green mobs, and it made things more fun.
So they removed the pet, and—hey—if it was for the good of the game (I think there were just too many pets everywhere back then), well, I at least understood it.
You can charm a pet, but the animals found in that low-level zone are low-level too, so you'll still spend quite a while killing those "green" mobs (plus, they'll likely kill your pet if there are several of them).
More on that, charming one of those enemies wont be possible, since we can only charm animals, and most of the green enemies that aggro aren't animals.
Also, I've noticed (I'm still testing this; I'd like to make a video) that there are many mobs that aggro even when they are green-level, without being named or undead. which complicates everything even further.

There are also positive aspects—such as the fact that many animals don't attack druids—which is a distinct advantage; not only does it save us from some trouble, but I also think it fits the class theme perfectly.

So, I'm not saying the game sucks or that I won't play it. I'm saying I do believe there's a problem of "diminishing fun." as the patches roll out.

Fell

tukor

You are just a troll. you're simply one of those posters who likes to belittle others... and who, no matter how many times something is explained—even a hundred times—just won't get it through their thick skulls.

Yet you're the one making all the personal insults.

You haven't even grasped the point of the original post or what I'm saying,

I read what you wrote: you were trying to solo green mobs by meleeing, and were upset that wasn't easy. When I pointed out that druids shouldn't be meleeing, you swapped to the objection that you couldn't nuke them without going OOM. When I pointed out that you should be dotting not nuking, you swap again to "green mobs hit too hard" and "devs killed our pet!"

That first post -- from the very title itself to several times in its body -- literally admitted outright you are "really bad at this" and were doing something wrong. When you were told what was wrong, you grew offended. Apparently your post didn't mean what you actually wrote, and was instead an excuse to vent, hoping others would respond, "no you're not doing anything wrong! we struggle too!"

This game is not a hack-and-slash where you're single-handedly mowing down huge swathes of enemies. Even greens take time to kill. But if you adopt proper tactics, they're not as hard as you believe.

Also, I've noticed (I'm still testing this; I'd like to make a video) that there are many mobs that aggro
even when they are green-level, without being named or undead.

There are two categories of green: those that grant xp and those that don't. The former will aggro on you, named or not.

tukor

Fell I’m not the best player because I don’t have the best gear—not because I don't know what DPS is, but because I’m not particularly keen on sinking a thousand hours into getting top-tier gear just for a +2 stat boost.
I like exploring, finding hidden spots, gathering plants, testing spells on things, diving in the ocean—usually without finding anything—and so on.
That sort of thing. So no, I’m not the most seasoned player, but I don't need someone to explain what DPS is, lol...
The thing is, you’re just eager to lecture people who never asked for it.
I understand you might have done that because you misunderstood my post, or because I didn't explain myself well. But after explaining it to you several times... you're still harping on the same thing. That shows you're looking for a conflict, not anything else.

Funny how other people have dropped facts that I did agree with... but since I don't agree with you, it must be some Jedi-Masonic conspiracy against you, right? Lol.
Maybe what you're saying just doesn't make sense...

Look, I didn't call you a troll as an insult (if you took it that way, I apologize).
To me, there are different types of people in gaming. There are the devs, with their tireless work. Top-tier players. Average players like me. Players who love making guides. Those who love buffing, helping out, and so on... and then there are the trolls—the ones who jump into everything even if they don't understand a thing. There's no shame in being a troll; it's a necessary part of the ecosystem.
My point was simply... why should I waste energy and time on someone who doesn't even grasp what's being said, even after two million posts? Heh.
I appreciate your input, even if it has nothing to do with what I'm saying; I'm just not interested in that line of conversation because I don't see the point 🙂
Have a good day!

Fell

tukor

I’m not the most seasoned player, but I don't need someone to explain what DPS is, lol...
you’re just eager to lecture people who never asked for it.

No one tried to explain to you what DPS means. But when you say (and I quote) "I must just be bad at the game" and ask "I wonder if this is happening to others or just me". then yes -- you ARE asking people to explain what you're doing wrong.

And when you say "I'm having trouble meleeing mobs to death", don't be surprised when someone responds "don't melee them".

Funny how other people have dropped facts that I did agree with... but since I don't agree with you,
it must be some Jedi-Masonic conspiracy against you, right? Lol.

Again you're being insulting and arguing dishonestly. No one alleged any sort of "conspiracy", and facts are not democratic. You may not agree that druids should solo using dots or (a hopefully soon-unnerfed) charm to solo, rather than melee or DD - but fact it is. Complaining there is something wrong with the druid class because your melee damage is so low, despite "having a decent melee weapon!" is outright absurd.

... then there are the trolls—the ones who jump into everything even if they don't understand a thing

I understand how druids can solo green mobs. I understand that you didn't actually mean what you wrote in that first post, but simply wanted an opportunity for group commiseration.

Gathbard

I don't think the situation will remain like this on the solo front, despite what the usual 2 or 3 people keep trying to push as gospel.
I mean, there's a reason if they're so few, after all.
Developing a group only environment is clearly not the intention of the dev team, or they wouldn't even had "Extremely capable solo" classes in the game. That is pretty evident, despite the rhetoric that a few rude, demanding, obnoxiously arrogant and pretentious individuals try to push. (ignore is your friend).

That doesn't mean that even those classes will solo fast and easy, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean that they're meant to struggle with greens either. "Relatively to the rest of the game" only goes so far to explain the solo weakness of a class meant to solo effectively.
It comes a point when you just don't add the word "solo" if your game isn't meant to allow it.
Having said that, I believe the game doesn't intend you to walk into huge swarm of greens and just obliterate them.
This isn't Dynasty Warriors. It is more likely that they won't be able to destroy you so easily while you slowly get rid of them.

I'm fairly convinced that it's just a matter of numbers and adjustements still being needed since we're Pre-EA, so no, I don't think it's you being bad at this. It's just the game being unfinished.
I personally wouldn't pay for EA if the current experience is not fun to play though.

Fell

Gathbard

I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean that they're meant to struggle with greens either.

If "by struggle with greens", you mean solo a green mob, then druids do NOT struggle. If, however, you mean "I can't wade through rivers of greens", then yes that is by design. In Classic EQ (and many other MMOs) a player could literally go AFK with several greens pounding on them, then return an hour later and be full health, with the mobs still flailing away. But here, as you level, mobs take much much longer to become trivial.

That said, a druid using proper tactics can solo blues easily, not just greens. Even without charm, they still solo better than most classes.

Denerik

Growlron How'd that work out for Pantheon?

Fine. Pantheon's issues have nothing to do with the grouping and social aspects of the game.

Dredlord

Denerik Haha, I actually dropped Pantheon for two reasons. First, I wanted to solo, which worked fine early on but eventually became impossible. Second, the game is just way too dark all the time. so yeah I should just look for a solo MMO, At least I can level solo to 60 or in group in WoW forever.

« Previous Page