Wizard needs help. It is among the worst damage class in the game right now

Fell

Nyx Fell, go ask Droot how much he nukes for. Did you know that on the Pustulax fight (where he wasn't in a group with a wizard because I was the only one) he nuked for 41K damage to my 44K damage?

According to Droot, this isn't correct. He says you're thinking of Ga'Duuz -- and nearly half his damage was DOTS not nukes. Oh, and he also has +5 enchants on his gear, used a wis pot to bring his wisdom up to 227, and benefited from the wizard and SPD debuffs for an extra 20% dmg. Another false claim debunked.

Again: if you want a class that can gate, port, and evac like a wizard, has high burst damage like wiz -- but are willing to take a 20% damage haircut in exchange for heals ... play a druid. The most boring game in the world is the one where all the classes are perfectly equal at everything.

Fell

Nyx I never said 4 times in a row. I said the amount of mana loss for 4 resists equals to several minutes of sitting time.

So you have enough mana to use your big nuke many more than 4 times in one fight? Or do you mean something entirely different: you got resisted once or twice on one mob, then again on some other mob?

The point remains: the law of large numbers averages these cases out. When your have fewer, large hits, your damage will be spikier -- sometimes well below average, but sometimes well ABOVE average as well. Melees hitting a mob 100+ times will have a much smoother curve.

WhiskyJack

oh so now DOT damage does not count? You seriously crack me up. You are so desperate to always be right you don't see how stupid you always sound. HAGG.

Fell

WhiskyJack oh so now DOT damage does not count?

Did you forget your own posts already? We're discussing sustained damage in exp groups ... where DoTs are highly ineffecient because TTK is so low. DoTS are great on raid mobs -- and if they worked in a group, I'd count them too.

Also, did you figure out yet that staying OOM doesn't increase a wizard's damage?

Nyx

Fell

Sadly, no one has screenshots, so it's a moot point. I recall that after Pustulax, when we were talking about DPS, he stated he did 41k damage to him. We started this topic not because of his total DPS, but because of the amount of damage he nukes for, which you called out as false. And I was also rocking 225 INT for those fights, using the same methods to increase my INT. So your claim about the better gear is also debunked.

Of course he's going to benefit from the wizard debuffs because there is a wizard at the raid; I am at the raid. We can go back and forth about his DPS and utility and heals and how 10% of his damage, and frankly 10% of everyone's magic damage at the raid, is my aDPS. I'm not saying the wizards don't do damage; I'm saying in grouping scenarios we do less damage on average over a long period. That is what this forum topic and post are about; no one brought up raid DPS until I used it as an example. And we've now expanded the argument to include raiding, which is a small part of the game compared to the real 1-60 grind and is a small slice of the real experience. Overall, the game should be audited over that 1-60 leveling journey for how much DPS each class should do. They can tweak things at the high end when that becomes a problem or is severely unbalanced.

Nyx

Fell

Case in point right there: you're wanting to come speak on the Wizard forums about the class, and you don't even know mana costs, mana pool sizes, damage numbers, mob HP numbers, CD timers, etc. You're just fumbling around here and trying to claim you know all this stuff that you really don't. Lol go back to the Enchanter forums. And somehow you're still missing the point of the statement. 4 resisted nukes = the wizard needs to sit to regain that mana. While sitting, the Wizard cannot do damage, and the rest of the party keeps dealing damage and outpaces the Wizard.

Spell casters deal with resist and partial resist rates, which differ from what melees deal with, but of course you already know that. But on average, which is the curve you are talking about, the Wizard has lower DPS over a longer period of time, even as both of those curves go up and down. Of course, you don't bring any of this information or numbers of your own because you didn't do any of that research; you just anecdotally feel a certain way about this or that, and you're basing all of your arguments off of that, which doesn't provide you with a defensible position.

I only interjected my feedback on the forum topic and the knowledge I had to bring, and you've been just ignorantly ranting about all this since then. But please continue; you've got a microphone, and apparently you're not afraid to use it. So just keep showing everyone just how little you truly know.

WhiskyJack

Pushing "law of large numbers" to wave away lost mana and med downtime shows you don't even understand the math you're trying to quote. You're completely disingenuous, hopelessly condescending, and a habitual line mover. Your new name is Fell "Wrong Answer Bro" 45,000.

Fell

Nyx We started this topic not because of his total DPS, but because of the amount of damage he nukes for, which you called out as false

You can't use dots effectively in groups. Even ignoring that, 8K of that damage came not from his spells, but from YOUR debuff -- rightfully that gets credited to you, not him. And his "heal utility" there was zero, because when you're DPSing, you're not healing.

It's astonishing how many players refuse to think about the broader picture. Will nerfing druid dmg help a wizard solo? No. Will it make them more valuable in groups or more group invites? No again. Raising WIZARD damage would -- but that changes the balance for every other DPS class in the game too, classes you've already admitted are "about right" -- and classes that are all already screaming they're "broken because we don't do enough damage". Raise wizard sustained damage, and you have to raise them also. It's a never-ending circle, ad infinitum.

NWC already tried a druid that could nuke only about 60% as well a wizard. That didn't work, so they made it about 75%, and gave druid charm an even bigger nerf. Cut druid damage any more, and the class breaks again: why would anyone accept third-best heals, if they can't also toss in some decent damage now and then?

Nyx

WhiskyJack

Lol, I know, he's so desperate to "prove his point," and it's hilarious to watch him flail around wildly. Just cherry-picking things that fit his narrative. You should go check out the rest of his post history. It's wild to see how he calls people toddlers and insults them by asking if English is their second language. Claims they're trolling or have brain disease, which is crazy considering one of his own guildmates had to leave the game behind because of brain cancer. He goes around telling people they don't know how to read. He keeps bashing, insulting, and bringing down people in the community to support his arguments. He talks about people whining, but the only one I see doing that is him lol.

He thinks I'm taking it personally, but I just see him tearing people down in the community, and with a game everyone here wants to see succeed, I think that directly opposes what we should be doing. We as a community should be trying to foster a better community. We should create an environment where new players enjoy being part of it, because this style of game is more about the memories than the monsters. This type of game is about recreating the experience we had with older-style MMOs. And if more people acted like him, we would slowly see the community erode and degrade into an unwelcoming, uninviting place. So yeah, maybe I do take it personally, but I think if more people took his inappropriate attitude personally, then we'd show the large community of this game and newer players that we're better than that. Every game has a few rotten apples, but most players oppose this kind of rude behavior.

Fell

WhiskyJack Pushing "law of large numbers" to wave away lost mana and med downtime shows you don't even understand the math you're trying to quote

LOL, no it doesn't work that way. The mana and time already factors into the equation. Over any significant period of time, the resist rate on spells averages into the cumulative total. Melee miss 4+ times in a row far more often than wizards do ... but they'll NEVER have a mob in which they hit for full every attempt, like a wizard does.

Also: sorry if you answered already, but did you figure out yet why staying OOM doesn't boost a wizard's damage?

Nyx

Fell

Yak yak yak, still haven't told us what gives you any credibility to talk about the wizard class.

Still haven't stated that you found out druids nuke for more damage than you thought.

Still going round and round, grasping at any part of an argument to prove your point. You're wasting your time. No one here cares about your opinions and thoughts on a class you don't play. Go back to the enchanter forums. Or did you come here because you started losing those debates too?

Nyx

Fell

Have YOU figured out how much druids nuke for?

Have YOU figured out spell costs, spell cast times, mob HP, debuff lines, spell lines, mana pool size?

Have YOU figured out that no one here believes you know what you're talking about regarding the Wizard because you have zero credibility around the class besides anecdotal experience and "feelings" for how they are when you group with them?

Go home Fell, no one here cares what you have to say about the Wizard class lol

Kalarian

Nyx I think the glyphs are a bait. You need 1, maybe 2 damage spells on your bar at any time. For 99% of content you can take your best nuke and the resist debuff. If you want, you can do it for a second element. That only takes 4 slots.

Spending 5 spell slots and having to do a combo to cast 36 spells when you only need like 2-4 of them is just not worth it. Glyph-casted spells need reduced cast time and reduced mana cost or it's just not worth doing. In 1% of cases you might get 5% increased damage, but since wiz damage is trash, it doesn't even matter.

WhiskyJack

You are a parrot repeating things you don't even understand. Here is your answer: Squak Squak. Now shooo. Flyaway back to your cage.

Fell

Nyx pell casters deal with resist and partial resist rates, which differ from what melees deal with,

Melee deal with full and partial misses. Mathematically, it has literally the exact same effect. There really isn't any room for dispute on facts like this. The only difference is that melee damage averages smoothly over a single mob, whereas wizard damage averages out over a lengthier period. Someone who really wishes to embarrass themself might claim they're different because "melee misses don't waste mana", but this is of course a nonsensical objection. Melee hit rates are controlled by weapon delay; spell damage by total mana. A miss in either case reduces damage in the exact same manner.

Fell

Nyx Have YOU figured out that no one here believes you know what you're talking about

Your own figures prove my point. Wizards are 20% (by your figures) or 25-30% (by mine) better at damage than druids. That's well-balanced. If you were honest and believed otherwise -- you'd play a druid.

What's ironic is that, I fully expect in a couple months to find Nyx playing a druid, and arguing on the druid forums about how badly their nukes suck. 🙂

WhiskyJack

Fell Fell "Wrong Answer Bro" 45,000 ... there you go again trying to talk about things you don't understand again.

Fell

All this silliness about druids have obscured the real issue here. Comparing wizards to mages, if one excludes burst potential, then mages have significantly more utility and yet do much higher sustained damage. If I'm making a group, I'll ALWAYS take the mage over the wizard (countered only somewhat by knowing that, if its some mage I don't know, they may spend 90% of their time in group AFK)

That's a balance problem, IMO. Adding wizard sustained dps in one solution, but not the best one. The best way is to add more content that NEEDS burst damage.

Fell

WhiskyJack Fell "Wrong Answer Bro" 45,000 ...

There's a reason they don't allow family members of the defendant to sit on a jury; its the same reason that the last person one should listen to when claiming "wizards need more power" is a wizard themself.

BTW, did you follow the earlier explanation of why a wizard shouldn't stay OOM, and that it does nothing to increase their damage? It's a pretty important concept to grasp.

WhiskyJack

Fell "Wrong Answer Bro" 45,000 I am going to share with you a story my Dad told me long time ago. Its funny and more than a bit sad really if one truly thinks about it.

He was a teacher and there was this student in his class that was continuously disruptive, rude, picked fights with the other children, and was just a general nuisance to have around. In short, he was a lot like you.

One day my Dad took him out into the hall away from the other children and asked "Marcus, why do you act this way in my class ?" His response is one I will never forget and the irony of which may very well be lost on you, but I will share it here with you in any case just on the chance that it will land.

Marcus replied "Man! You tryin to teach me sh!t I ain't even know." My Dad didn't say a word, shook his head, and turned around walking back into the class room to leave Marcus standing there alone in the hall.

Good bye Fell "Wrong Answer Bro" 45,000. This was entertaining, but I am returning to the real discussion now.

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