Player summoning

Bloodright

Since elementalist are the masters of all things summoned.. could we have it where they can summon a player to their location? maybe enlist the assistance of group members to complete the spell?

Spellweaver

They had this with an appropriate cooldown attached to it in Alpha. I agree, it would make the Elementalist feel a bit more dynamic. It would also help solve any player coming in late, replacements, and especially useful for pug groups. Can it be abused for class swaps, 20 ele's summoning, etc? Sure, but I think NWC is smart enough to figure it out, if they ever choose to bring it back. Lots of ideas have been shared on how to throttle/regulate it.

Gooooo

NWC is always talking about how summon player allows people to skip content, as though abilities like Invis, SoW, and Evac don't. Those abilities are still in the game, yet one of Ele's defining abilities continues to be stripped away.

The reasoning just doesn't make much sense. If the concern is skipping content, then why are other travel and utility abilities that also let players bypass encounters still considered acceptable while a core part of Ele's identity gets removed?

Kirrund

Gooooo it's because the devs dont play ele and dont care about it, just like archers. Why would they remove stuff from classes they like? We also know that only two people on the dev team have leveled past 30.

Gooooo

Kirrund That's so sad

Briggs

Gooooo Kirrund is very doom and gloom, They are currently swamped getting things out and ready for EA. The guy think this is how all the classes will be forever. Its clearly not and they are all going to change. 3 classes are still waiting on their reworks and thats a priority right now. Be patient and things will improve. Overall, the class changes have been positively received, and saying the devs don't play the game past level 30 is crazy talk. They are of course testing things at higher levels.

Gooooo

Briggs I actually don't feel the Ele class rework is well received after talking to fellows Elementalists. I don't speak for other classes tho.

Kirrund

Briggs No, I am realistic. I have access to more data than you. Several classes have been the way they are for years, with tons and tons of feedback going ignored. You simply do not know. Also, shawn even said on his stream that only two people on the team have hit 60, the rest have not gotten past 30. The reality is they do not spend much time playing their own game. I just know more things than you do, I know people who have been playing this for years and have seen what I am talking about.

I know of only a single elementalist who likes the changes, and they aren't even level 60 (only 55) and haven't put much time into the class. They also admit that it has many broken things but they are okay with that because it has a good pet and bandages. I know around 8 level 60 elementalists who are extremely disappointed with the changes, and I am sure there are more besides. How many do you think even hit 60? I am friends with a player who leveled TWO elementalists to level 60 in alpha, and then again to 55 in beta. All of his feedback was ignored and he has quit the game.

saephellar

Kirrund I'm just saying ever since a certain someone left it seems like most of these class reworks aren't very fun anymore and I think it all makes sense now. So when they left it seems like people were correct to feel worried and now the results are starting to show of their departure. The current team focuses too much on themes and not gameplay/skill expression. It seems like they don't even play a class before the rework goes out. I mean elementalist is a perfect example. A one button casting spell class. If you get hit literally nothing you can do as any damage done to you while casting stops the spell from being cast. I hope new people join the team and see the flaw in this as I knew it immediately when trying it first day of the rework.

Dewey

The game is not done. Yall are doomers. Lots of stuff are coming in the future.

NarcolepticLTD

Gooooo

Dewey I'm not sure whether you play Elementalist, but if you do and you like the rework, good for you.

That doesn't change the fact that many Elementalist players are unhappy with it, and we have every right to voice their feedback.

If any opinion that doesn't align with NWC or yours is automatically labeled as "dooming," then that's not a discussion. It's just refusing to accept different views

Zaroua

Gooooo NWC is always talking about how summon player allows people to skip content, as though abilities like Invis, SoW, and Evac don't. Those abilities are still in the game, yet one of Ele's defining abilities continues to be stripped away.

The reasoning just doesn't make much sense. If the concern is skipping content, then why are other travel and utility abilities that also let players bypass encounters still considered acceptable while a core part of Ele's identity gets removed?

It allows players to be lazy and makes the summoner everyone else's bitch. No other way to put it. Played enough Warlock in WoW to know. You'd join a group as a Warlock and NOBODY wanted to get to the dungeon. Everyone expected the Warlock to get there and find two other schmucks to summon. Not even unusual to have a full group formed and have no one except the Warlock on the way to the dungeon even 30+ minutes after the last person joins. Blergh. No thanks. So they added summoning stones. No thanks even harder.

With that being said, I'm not entirely against the idea, but I think it'd be best if they create a world where summoning doesn't feel required. Where going to the kind of areas where you'd want to summon a group to was an adventure in and of itself. "The world is the main character" doesn't really apply if you just read the info blurb on the wiki, yeah?

It just removes a large layer of get together-ness and organization. It shrinks down the world considerably and cheapens travel and teleports. Yeah people can cover a lot of ground with just SoW and Invis, but I have a feeling the world will get more dangerous as times goes on. They've talked about dynamic events of sorts, and more dangerous weather effects. They'll probably go back and revisit areas and make some spots much more difficult/flat out impossible to Invis through. Kind like adding dogs that see through Invis.

Spellweaver

saephellar Yep, ever since Nick left the classes are going downhill. The artificial cooldowns being added to a lot of class abilities makes the world feel artificial and makes it feel more like a "game" than a "world."

Adding artificial cooldowns to throttle abilities makes the game feel fake. Give the player a resource (mana, stamina, health) and let that be the defining resource to face a dangerous world. And allow that resource to flex when presented with danger. That's what it means to be classic. Player choice management.

Don't put your game on rails. Less is more. Allow player choice.

saephellar

Kirrund unironically elementalist was my main before the rework and got it to level 24. After the rework I really did not like the gameplay of it as they removed the little complexity it had. After that I seriously thought about quitting the game. I think the classes were designed better when Nick were here and now it's starting to show. I was so excited for this game and loved everything about it and was excited for a game like this. But now I'm unsure if I will play when EA arrives. But then again the game isn't fully finished yet. We are still in a somewhat beta like state Shaun said so idk how things will turn out. I just hope they get a new class designer that play these classes more effectively and see what the players are not only talking about but feel as well when they play the their classes.

Razzle

An ability that strong will always cause balancing issues.

I admit I enjoy to novelty and unique identity of the classic "Call of the Hero" spell.
But the lengths to which competitive guilds would use it to gain an edge is silly and absurd.

Adding the long cooldown didn't make it any better, it instead just forced each player to have their own elementalist parked by each competitive raid encounter.

We already know that quality of life isn't always the best option for a game, especially long term.
Player summons just promoted lazy behavior and made the world less immersive because you could just circumvent it.

Gooooo

Razzle I respect your view but I am of the opinion that they can keep gutting fun or powerful mechanics (Charm, CotH, SoW, Pacify, snare, Canni, twinking) from the classes under the "excuse" of reworks, balance, and exploit prevention. But at the end of the day, games are supposed to be fun, not a chore. EQ is fun because classes are incredibly unbalanced and every few expansions , each class took their turn to be somehow overpowered for a little while. It was fun. But i guess detractors will say that will kill the game they love.

Ele went from a class that was doing "okay" to a class where we have to make a separate chat window and spent most of the time monitoring Empowerment fading.

To those that are not happy with the state of the game now, take a break and go play other games. check back in a few months time and see how it goes. NWC still have a lot of work to be done.

Razzle

Gooooo I agree with everything you just said with the exception of player summoning.

And if player summoning can be introduced in a way where it doesn't subtract from the game and doesn't become a cheese mechanic used by guilds to skip parts of the game. I would agree with you 100%.

Gooooo

Razzle I use invis, along with two of my RL friends to 'cheese' our way through the Orc fort in SS all the way to Premus and Kruurgal. We only stopped maybe twice inside the tunnels to wait for the 'see invis' dog to path by, killed it and continued to 'cheese' our way in with invis and SoW, skipping a lot of content. We managed to get the 2H sword from Premus and three heads from Kruurgal for the SS earring quest.

By your definition, invis should be removed too. I don't mean to be argumentative, but there's only so much you can remove from the game to combat player innovation before you make the game very tedious and boring. We are all busy adults; we save time by moving in and completing what we came for. Skipping trash isn't breaking the game; breaking the actual boss camp is where the fun is. Removing those clever shortcuts doesn't make the game harder or more prestigious—it just drains the time of busy adults who only have a couple of hours a day/week to play. After reading here ,some cultist will tell me this game is not suitable for me and go play other games. However we did spent a lot of time scouting and dying/Cr while learning the zone. On the 3rd time, we started to just invis/sow and run to save time

Anyway An Elementalist definitely won't be able to solo in invis and then CotH his friends to Kruurgal.

They know they can't remove invis and SoW, even though these two spells allow players to skip content, because there would be an uproar since it affects so many classes. But they can remove CotH because there are only so many Ele around, and maybe even fewer now with the rework.

Nice talking to you although we have differing opinions.

Molgar

SUMMONING elementals who listen to you because they have no will, or no essence... is not in the same sphere is dealing with the dead/(undead) and the holy/divine..!

Sorry, but summoning inanimate objects is not the same as a living being vs construct.