Player summoning

Briggs

I would like to see summoning players be a level 40+ reward for Elementalist, maybe make it cost some expensive mats or have a several hour long cooldown(or even 24 hours), but I would like to see it. Or even instead of summoning to any location, make them only able to summon to druid circles or something similar?

Gooooo

Briggs It very useful to replace group member to a xp group deep in dungeon encouraging peeps to move into indoor dungeon if we have an Ele in group.

In my opinion, summoning only to druid circle don't really work. We can only summon within a zone. We cannot summon across zone to a druid circle. That will be a druid thing and we definitely don't want to encroach into Druid realms. Then If a Ele has to physically run to a Druid Circle themselves, they might as well just tip a Druid for a direct teleport. Restricting an Elementalist this way completely strips the class of its unique identity and turns a utility into a useless, roundabout hassle.

Kirrund

It was a 20 minute cd before. That lets you replace one player every so often. If you're at a raid, you can summon the one lost player who has no idea how to get there, even though there are often multiple lost players, and so little people play the class it is common to have 1 or 0 elementalists at a raid.

I suspect this class will gain a bit of a population boon through combination of it not needing gear on a fresh start, and from people with fresh, dreamy eyes who don't yet know what's in store for them. But also, they'll find out that they have no upgrades to look forward to because gear doesn't do much for them, and even less so now. And then they'll learn, if they make it to 60, their job is pushing summon bandage 200 times (because you only summon 4 at a time) and then another 50 times for manastone, make pet attack, and nothing else. It's just a fancier Archer, which is far and away the lowest population class...for a reason. Despite being quite strong. Because power level isn't the same as good design or being fun or feeling good to play.

Fell

Zaroua Not even unusual to have a full group formed and have no one except the Warlock on the way to the dungeon even 30+ minutes after the last person joins. Blergh. No thanks. So they added summoning stones. No thanks even harder.

In addition to this, player summoning allows an incredible number of content-skipping exploits, particularly in end-game content. Camping a mage at a safe spot is the classic example. Modify the spell so you need a partial party to summon, and guilds just camp a cpl more alts there as well. NBD, and no thanks.

One thing I think the game does DESPERATELY need is more ways to reunite a player with his corpse. Giving res to just cleric and paladin is insane, when a tiny slipup often means 1 person has to spend an hour running back to the zone, while -- if they're a critical class -- the rest of the group has stalled as well.

All priests should have some form of res, even if the shaman/druid version gave back zero experience, and slapped you with a 15-minute res effects debuff as well.

Raybane

Fell 1 person every 20 mins makes for a very slow and time wasting exploit, if that is how you want to use it.

Fell

Raybane A fair point, but mages can also summon more mages. A large guild can have 5-6 mages, and that changes the math dramatically.

Put it on a 45-minute cooldown and yeah, it probably wouldn't be an issue.

Sp00kedd

What about making it so you can't camp Elementalists in certain high end areas? An example would be that say in some new lvl 60 zone, you can only camp at the zone line once inside. This would combat the "camp right before the boss" strategy and port in your whole raid. This always felt cheesy when I expierenced it in p99, but it did save a TON of time. Only for us to spend 6+ hours raiding xD

Fell

Sp00kedd What about making it so you can't camp Elementalists in certain high end areas? An example would be that say in some new lvl 60 zone, you can only camp at the zone line once inside.

A good idea overall I think, though it gives an easy escape hatch from these areas -- d/c and come back 2 minutes later for a free trip to zone in.

Sp00kedd

Fell

I see, valid point. So when you d/c it doesn’t log you back in at your exact location?

Fell

Sp00kedd So when you d/c it doesn’t log you back in at your exact location?

It does now, yes. BUT-- if you were preventing people from camping at safe spots in these zones, then you would have to alter that.

Nazgrimn

Gooooo nothing these guys do make sense to a lot of people.

Gooooo

Fell We also regularly parked a cleric in a safe spot so that we could resurrect the raid if we wiped while learning new encounters. By that logic, and according to the developers' vision, resurrection should be removed from the game as well.

I don't encourage this kind of overthinking. If we start dissecting every possible use case for a particular ability and predicting how players might use it in every scenario, then this game will turn into Embers Adrift.

I mean, you don't close every window in your house because a single piece of paper flew out of one of them. It's a knee-jerk reaction. It's not breaking the game. It just skipping some content as what some other abilities that are still currently in game are doing.

They said they've been having extensive internal discussions about CoTH, and after all this time, they still don't have a consensus or a solution. To me, that speaks volumes about how much they're overthinking it.

Gooooo

Fell This will most likely impact raid recovery after wipes. When raids start wiping, raid leaders will ask healers to camp out, let the encounter reset, then log back in to resurrect the raid and handle CR. That will no longer be an option.

This is what I mean by overthinking. First, we think we can prevent players from camping in a safe spot near a raid boss. Then we realize it affects raid recovery and that a defining raid strategy that has been used for years will disappear as a result. Then the whole issue gets shelved again until the next meeting and rethink again.

Kurau

I'll begin by saying an assumption on why the spell was removed (and a possible fix)...

I think they don't want player summoning because of scenarios like this: Let's say a raid ends up being 20 people. Old established guilds will have time to level their mains to the max level and have multiple alts. The developers probably don't want a raid boss to spawn, and suddenly 10 guild members log off, just to log into their elementalist alt to summon 10 other guildies (currently on their mains). And once those 10 main guildies are summoned, they will log off, log in into their elementalist alts and summon the remaining 10 guildies (who were previously on their elementalist alt logging off to log into their mains). This scenario bypasses any restrictions on time limits to cast the spell.

This would create chaos on servers with long established guilds getting to a raid boss or X named NPC first and camping them.

They probably don't care for the normal use of the spell that 99% of the people want it for: ie. if you are in a group, and want to summon a replacement because you or someone else is leaving. They just want to avoid the initial scenario.

Once again, this is just my assumption.

If this is indeed the reason, this could easily be fixed with the following:
-not allowing elementalists to be able to summon anyone X levels above them (say..3 to 5 levels). This would prevent guildies on just leveling elementalists alt to the level they get the summon spell and be done with it. Or summoning a lvl 60 to resolve their problems (ie. camp a mob / harass a player on pvp).
-not allowing elementalists to summon at all (in that zone, or the adjacent zones) for ₁ hour once a raid flag is established because a raid event started / boss or named NPC spawned. Lore wise - it could be explained by the mana currents being affected by X mob being spawned preventing summoning (just like evacs can be prevented)
-not allowing the spell to be casted until the elementalist has been online ₁ hour (this prevents the fast log off / log in just to execute the summon)
-not allowing the server to execute more than 1 player summon in a zone until 3 minutes pass (if by any chance any of the above fail...it would still take 60 minutes to summon 20 people - giving other players time to arrive and attempt the event as it was envisioned)

I can probably think of other fixes, but since this is just based on an (my) assumption, I'm not trying to overthink it

Gooooo

Kurau Your fix could be a good base to start with. but I think they most or all have been proposed. NWC are still thinking and thinking and ...............

Velthorian

Gooooo ridiculous argument, FD and Rez can also be used to "Skip content" ffs. YOLO train to a spot near your group, die, have their monk drag your ass and have the cleric/pal rez you, same shit, this argument is tired and old.

Gooooo

Velthorian Tell that to the dev, not me… they are the one that had concerns about coth skipping contents.

Lucent

The idea that a team carefully discussing design decisions and thinking deeply about them is somehow odd and evidence of "overthinking" is seriously silly and shows that you clearly don't have the soul of a game designer

Unchainedfury

Gooooo

^ This Dude gets it..

Unchainedfury

Fell Modify the spell so you need a partial party to summon,

Limits gameplay, No Thank You.

Fell player summoning allows an incredible number of content-skipping exploits,

Dude, it's just a group trying to get a rep at a camp far away from the zone in...at the basic level. Can it be used/misused in other ways later on for raid purposes? Sure. Why is that a bad thing? Could that be addressed at that point in time? Of course. Should we make a big deal about it now? Name the scenarios that CoTH "allows an incredible number of content-skipping exploits" to occur?

I'd like to get away from these blanket "it's bad for one particular scenario so we can't allow anyone to use it at all" scenarios.

Fell One thing I think the game does DESPERATELY need

Let me guess, another Limiting/Removal idea? WTB kalshi

« Previous Page Next Page »