Cleric Deep Dive Discussion!

Fidric

random utility suggestion. (ever hopefully)

necros can make life stones. elementalists can make mana stones.

could clerics get some sort of 'prayer bead' conjured item that applies a cleric HP barrier effect when used by a player?

lets you up front the mana cost of a barrier as an emergency prep handout/ fly by "buff".

would be cooler than the 5% life threshold reactive heal & secondary hp 40 min buff (level capped and costs money) ¬_¬

Merryhammer

[unknown] BOOOOO!!!! HISS stay in the Druid chat. ;p

Merryhammer

So after playing a bit. I now like the changes, and I would like to say I was wrong to get so hot under the collar about the changes. (barring loss of oath of Protection). My only notes would be on the proc chance for all of the random buffs. Here is my 2 cents. All offensive abilities should be able to proc wrath and righteous strike. So Rebuke Line, Holy Strike, and Smite Line. All heals/shields/utility should be able to proc piety. Holy Strike should have a chance to proc all 3. To Mitigate spamming, any line that is a long term buff should not be allowed to proc if spammed I.E. Resilience, Devotion, and PotF Lines. In addition some mechanism should be implemented to prevent spamming downcast spells. A solution could be a level back cap. I.E. If I can cast Sublime Heal (7th in line) the lowest healing spell of that line I could spam cast would be Superior Heal (5th in line). However heals especially should be able to proc piety if spammed( within the aforementioned limits or some other framework.) as there mana cost and the likelihood they will be cast back to back is a mitigating factor. Dispel and its direct line should also proc piety (spamming of this spell should be allowed). The conjure lines should proc piety but is not essential. Resistance spells can be dropped from procs. Fear, Shackle and Stun Should Proc Piety. Finally the overall chance to proc should be increased for Wrath and Piety, Righteous Strike could be buffed a tad but less than the other Wrath and Piety. About every 5-7 combats one should proc. with Wrath being the Highest chance, as it is the weakest buff followed by Piety and then Righteous Strike. We still need more utility, I have no idea how to do this but hopefully someone comes up with something. On that note the devotion line needs to be 60 minutes, and the save heal needs to trigger sooner and needs a buff to its healing. ( The front end is good more HP) but the heal has little to no effect on the outcome of a battle that is probably already lost. Have the Trigger go off at 35% health and heal them back to 50%. this gives you time to get a heal out. (I dont like mats for spells in General but if it requires a mat it should be a pretty good spell.) Still love the game and thanks fort all the hard work.

tuesday

Merryhammer If piety is going to proc from buff spells it should proc from spamming buffs. This is because spamming buffs is literally how buffs work, with a cleric in a group of 6 spamming 19 buffs every single hour and an additional 6 buffs every 40 minutes!!

Buffing is awful, and giving clerics a chance to get something from keeping up with this horrible chore would be nice lol

Merryhammer

[unknown] I dont think they should as there mana cost is so little it would lead to a repeat of the Prayer of the Faithful Problem, plus thats prebattle stuff.

Nullen

Anyone else feel like they should increase monster damage? I have all these heals that I never have to use in groups. Cast impart about every minute or so. Now I gotta play pretend DPS, but I would much rather be using more of my healing kit or have some other utility to use.

I don’t know what high level cleric gameplay is like yet.

secondhandname

I just started a cleric post revamp, so I don't know how it played before. I played a cleric in everquest and, so far, absolutelty love the cleric here. I think the procs are awesome and a ton of fun. Pretty exciting when they hit. I am a little concerned if shaman and druid heals are just as good, that clerics won't be as needed, but I've not gotten far enough to experience that first hand. just going off some of the comments here.

It would be cool if some of the later hammer summon spells are gained through a holy quest from your chosen deity and rewarded a hammer that is, or close to, best in slot, and/or custom to said deity.

Being in beta, I think its pretty damn great so far. I'm excited to see what comes.

Name

20+ Clerics, what percentage of the time would you say you get to actually stand there and melee and holy strike etc. now, vs. sit medding? How real is it on average?

Clairical

Hello everyone,

I got the chance to join the beta about a week ago and managed a Cleric up to lvl 16.
Here is my feedback on how it feels:

Solo

-Being able to tank up to even white mobs is awesome (so long as it´s only one)
-The lightning procs are amazing when they do happen
-The piety and wrath procs are also amazing when they do happen
-Root is cool

Groups

-Can off tank, which is great
-Various utilities and CC
-Nuclear healing and wide healing toolkit (maybe too wide?)

Mana regen

Ok here we go, that´s probably the fun-breaker for me
-6 sec wait for a tick, why so long? Many games did mp5 back in the days, why not a twist with mp3?
-Scaling of WIS to regen is terrible or the spell toolkit is too expansive (looking at you lvl 16 spells...)
-We should not have to downrank, we did it in oldschool games because of design issues, not because it was intended
-Why don´t we have an active skill that help us boost our regen every so often? Group content is so boring, I have to be sooo conservative that I literally use 3 to 6 actions max per monsters then I sit and I sit and I siiiiit and just afk coffee once my actions are done while I wait for regen. I left a group last night because I was bored to death, have more "fun" solo...
-About passive procs, these are terrible design in my opinion, unpredictable, extremely unfrequent, so much so that one has better completly ignore these mechanics as playing around them would be foolish given how unfrequent these are.

Is that a cleric or a paladin?

-Very tanky
-Although has spells, mana issue does not really make it a proper caster
-Main source of dps is physical, with holy attribute, the strike skill, and auto-melee
-Holy damages of spells are rather poor
-Healing power is decent
-Why a cleric would have an identity trait that would make them so bad at managing their spiritual energy (mana)?
-It´s just a paladin with less mitigation and aggro management tools

Utilities

-Stun
-Health buff
-Various resist buff
-Root
-CC for undeads
-Blind
-Self-buff with many melee effects and a rather poor regen stat
-Nothing to help with mana management

Spells that seem out of place

There are a ton of spells I really have issues seeing on a cleric.
Root is a strange one, how does that work with the theme of cleric?
In fact, a vast majority of utilities are tools I would attribute to other classes (blind, root, stun)
If we want the effects of these to still be given to cleric, let´s at least make these utilities a bit more "holy"

Final thoughts

I think the cleric in its current state is the worst of many world condensed together.

It feels like they failed cleric academy, got taken in a cheap paladin school out of pity. That paladin school also had teacher shortage and made do with druids, rogues etc to teach their pupils, including our poor cleric.

Make a stand and once you do, empower the cleric, we can´t have nuclear heals with horrendous mana regen and a tanky armor but melee hitting like flies.

You could make it:
-A full on caster with plate, with damage coming mostly from spells and be required in melee or mid with proper regen tools and good mana endurance.
-A full on palaheal with emphasis on melee with low mana endurance but melee mechanics to proc regen often (rapid fire low/high mana movements)

Cheezo

Cleric rocks. Whichever dev made cleric rework deserves a beer.

Tibs

Is it possible to combine Rebuke with Smite the Undead spells together? 😎

Please let Rebuke proc Undead damage as a bonus. Two spells is just a waste of time. 🤔

If you are generous 😉 you really should make it instant cast with a cooldown of 15 seconds.

Anyways please consider improving the battle cleric concept. Getting into melee action is active and fun as a healer role. 💯🔥

Tibs

Is it possible to combine Rebuke with Smite the Undead spells together? 😎

Please let Rebuke proc Undead damage as a bonus. Two spells is just a waste of time. 🤔

If you are generous 😉 you really should make it instant cast with a cooldown of 15 seconds.

Anyways please consider improving the battle cleric concept. Getting into melee action is active and fun as a healer role. 💯🔥

Spongeemcgee

Name Depends really. I have a fighter buddy I level with and his mitigation is really good. I keep 2 different ranks of either promise line or heal line on the bar. Trick is to always top him when you get full mana. Don't let mana regen ticks go to waste so pick the right heal for the missing health. Relaxed pace I'm up full time swinging. Random piety procs really help. If things are more stressful it's sit, hit with strike and sit. Currently at lvl 34.

Michael

I leveled a cleric up to 10 since the changes. I hope the class's front line practicality holds up as I level.

Mechanically, I'm into the battle cleric thing. I hope we lean more into that in the future. I would go further and make touch or near by only spells. Get stuck in.

I also love the deity angle with regard to random blessings. Gives the atmosphere and the fun.

Hope that later the diety blessings will be more related to your selected diety. Agnostic clerics make no sense.

The best thing about the class revamp in the recognition that we need to lean more into in-world fantasy. These changes are evidence of that thinking. Take it further. A cleric's magic is granted by their god taken to the ends. Makes playing a holy class feel unique adding constraints and choices.

As always, though, cooldowns are bad design. Get rid of them across the board and use a resource. Every button press should be a choice. But this isnt cleric specific.

Anyway, good direction.

Name

Spongeemcgee Damn that's cool. If you aren't constantly mana starved and actually get to swing a decent amount then it sounds like they nailed it and Cleric is now in my short list. I don't care about rez and would much rather have shaman or druid quality of life stuff like sow but melee (even weak dps) is just that cool and the only way to make healer interesting enough for me. At least one of them has some melee then; good designer decision.

Tpoon

Michael The solo'ability does tend to dip after level 12. It's why I'm hoping to pally is very similar but has far more durability.

I assume they'll be balanced against one another

Seanzor

Cleric is great. Love the encouragement to melee, and the random blessings are FUN.

Arne

Some ramblings..

At 59 I’m finding I can heal using Sublime & Divine heals and just ignoring Imparts just fine with no issues. Currently, to me, it’s not really worth trying to let your tank get lower HP to fully utilize the heal from imparts for the slight mana efficiency vs the risk. Especially in FW.

Impart is basically an adjusted version of Promised Renewal from EQ it seems. Maybe just lean more into the EQ version for the impart line, which was a very quick cast but longer delay heal.

I’d prefer some sort of evac like shaman or group bubble over DA/Gate. With the loss of Oath of protection if theres a bad pull I have to decide either sit and die with group or abandon them. Either way not saving time for the group because I probably won’t be able to get back to drag alone. Also, that would free up a spell slot.

Greater IVU would be welcome. Combining our direct damage spells into a single line with undead bonus damage would be nice. Adding a good portion of AC to our signature HP buff line would help.

Also, I find with the recent changes I just keep holy strike on CD but just sit between strikes and healing. The procs rarely happen when I would want them.

I do like the group cleanse.

Puma

Started up a cleric to try it out before the servers go down in prep for EA and i just gotta say the cleric rework is probably by far the best one. So good in fact you can just delete paladin entirely

Leorus

I’d love to see Clerics get more out-of-combat utility. Those types of flavor spells and abilities are really what helps the world come alive for me.

Water walking
Slow fall
Self port to your chosen deities temple

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