Monk Deep Dive Discussion!

millsydoo

Ralz I could see armor restrictions too but I think weapons are still very much a part of martial arts. Kobudo for example is a real life instance of simple weapons being used in martial arts. When I think of monks I think of stuff like bone conditioning, meditation, extreme physical feats, spiritual connection, something that can encompass all of martial arts - primarily eastern arts.

Ralz

millsydoo true. 2H staff, I understand. Duel wielding maces? Not so much.

millsydoo

Ralz right! Maces and hammers don't make much sense but a bo staff, fist wraps, knuckle weapons, tonfa, sai - traditional martial arts weapons do.

Xilith

millsydoo I'm a firm believer that monks should wear cloth instead of leather with an AC that scales with level the same way H2H scales.

Thematically I agree with this, but the way itemization has been done this would really have monks digging for scraps to get melee stats on their gear, so I don't think this is likely to happen.

millsydoo

Xilith if itemization is the issue that can be easily remedied by adding monk-like cloth gear. Special kimonos/gis, sashes, headbands, etc. I'm sure a high level tailor/enchanter should be able to whip something up for a monk.

doodlebop

Haven't played since months before the Monk update. Rolled Ogre, went max str with a split into dex/agi, did I hurt myself any? Should I have put max into dex instead? Just checking since I have the luxury to re-make before launch!

millsydoo

doodlebop from what I have read DEX/AGI is where it is at. The last stat priority I saw was DEX>AGI>STAM>STR. I don't know how accurate it is but it does align with what I have read on the forums.

doodlebop

millsydoo yeah interesting, feels weird to have STR last priority considering it scales dmg. I understand our kick scales off dex. I would think str/dex/agi or dex/str/agi

millsydoo

doodlebop beats me man. I haven't looked into it far enough. I basically evened out my stats and put what was left over into AGI. I may go back and reallocate at launch, but for now I'm satisfied with what I have.

Fubsy

doodlebop

There are 2 different schools of thought on stats, I had 70 days played on my monk in Beta, but these are just my opinions based on my experience. My views are in no way 100% correct and other will disagree with me.

I was geared very well at 60 and tried various builds, I soloed most named mobs pre and post rework. You can do a lot with patience and creativity as a monk.

I pulled in most groups unless I was with the legendary bard @Silly (you can't fathom how good he is). I split bosses in FW in every camp there.

I've been a vocal part of this community, talked a lot with fellow monks of all levels. I've tanked most camps outside of FW - lots of times without true "CC".

I will be rolling an Ogre monk, dumping max str and then dex. I have played at 40, 60, 100 agi and after the latest AC changes I don't see the value in agi. The purpose behind agi is to avoid getting hit, but if you are using the tools in the kit, and they are great tools, the amount of times you are taking damage becomes extremely rare. We have cooldowns that can be used in emergencies, with an ogre you get the AoE stun(subject to change I know). Stamina seems like a red herring to me, because mobs hit so hard an extra 100hp rarely makes a difference.

The recent changes to dex scaling have raised its importance in my mind but in EA I will be shooting for 100 plus dex and as much str as I can get. AC doesnt seem to make a difference post 50-55 unless you get significantly over 325ish. When I'm pulling, I'm far enough ahead of the mobs too not get hit unless I fail FD, if I fail FD I have cooldowns to help me survive till the next FD. If I'm dpsing and draw agro, I have FD if the tank doesn't have taunt on cooldown. For me agi just doesn't scale well enough to lesson the amount of damage I'm doing.

I know there is a sizeable group of monk mains with as much experience or more than I have that feel agi is worth it, but for my playstyle its about hitting as hard and often as I can.

The great part about the monk kit is that you can make some choices on what your style will be.

BobWendal

Yeah, I think its all personal preference on stats, I know most will run STR/DEX. I personally am an AGI enjoyer but thats probably because i had to tank most of my groups from 30-50. I have had another monk in my guild swear by stacking STA (it increases block rate, hp regen and max hp which means better mend) but have not tried a full STA build as I was too lazy to gear for it.

doodlebop

Fubsy Thank you! This is great feedback, my monk was only 30 but my main was BST, I stopped playing Monk when BST update dropped, plus he was high enough to check out the new zones. But I decided on Ogre Monk for launch, and had the same'ish thoughts with Str/Dex. I'm with you in that I enjoy the 'kit' more so than a linear path like 'dps' or 'puller' or whatever. I also figured, over time, we are still tweaking adjusting. Chars take an investment to get to 50+ let alone 60, so if you're sticking around long term, likely you'll pick up different gear sets to swap in/out depending on how you're playing any given night.

Plus, with a fresh economy, I feel Monk is slightly less gear dependent than other melee, so don't feel too bad dressed as a hobo while leveling (oh and I can never resist the racial, it's just too good and doesn't take a spell slot)

Cheers

Metavahn

i maxed out dex untill i only had 1 point left over for AGI, dont know if thats BIS starting stats but i just hate missing, and dex seems like it might contend with STR pretty well with the kick scaling anyway

Nideak

not to re-litigate an issue I brought up immediately upon release of the deep dive, but reading the last three (necro, ranger, shadow knight) and seeing the love, care, attention, and thoughtfulness that went into each of them, it really makes me sad to look at the 15 word write-up that monks (and the other classes released that day) got.

Monk is one of the least-played classes, but people who play monks are generally MONKS. They're dedicated to the craft. It would have been nice to see that community rewarded with a little thoughtfulness and care. Or, hell, if you don't care about that, look at the 5th-least played class and say 'maybe there's a reason people aren't playing it.' I don't know, but I was really peeved at the lack of thought and care in the "Deep Dive" and even more peeved now seeing actual thought put into the most-recent ones.

Ralz

Nideak What exactly are you disappointed by in the rework? I thought it was great.

Nideak

Ralz I’ve already written literally thousands of words on it, you can find them in this thread by searching my name.

However, I don’t really understand your question, because I’m pretty clear: the monk write up was shallow and short and seemed like an afterthought. The ones yesterday were thoughtful, in-depth, and showed actual care for the classes covered.

Edit: I read some of your posts. I put 0 value in à monk’s ability to solo. Monk is not a solo class, should not be a solo class, and any ànd all abilities pertaining to soloing are utterly useless ànd pointless on a class designed as the best puller in the game.

Edit edit: I don’t know why my phone does à. Please ignore.

Ralz

Nideak I had a read. I get what you mean. I didn't play monk pre-rework but did play it quite a bit post-rework. I thought it's solo abilities were great low/mid levels. I was asking about higher levels as well as FD seems like the best solo ability that exists (same in classic EQ). Maybe you can expand on why it should not solo? I get that its pulling ability is best in group settings. I am familiar with that.

Nideak

Ralz I just always found a monk's role to be best in groups. I'm not a big soloer in general (I have fire flopped, I know how to time bandages, etc... that's all fine. it's not a skill issue), I just think a monk should be feeding groups xp, or breaking difficult camps, or setting the tempo/pace/leading a raid.

I don't want a whole lot of their kit being spent on soloing (that's a me thing, obviously).

That said, I am just not a fan of stances or having 10 abilities that can't fit on the bar. I don't think the choices are all that interesting.

I can play monk in exactly the same way as I did BEFORE the rework (which I guess is a huge negative, nothing really changed), so I can still have fun and enjoy the class, but I read some of these other deep dives and it's like "Wow, the Devs really cared about this class."

Monks went from an unfinished class with an unfilled ability bar to a 3 paragraph "deep dive" (I always use quotes for the monk "deep dive" because I found it to be neither deep nor a drive) which didn't meaningfully change or improve monks in any way, and I just am sad that we weren't one of the classes the devs cared enough about to actually put some love and thought into.

Ralz

Nideak I understand. It is not that they "can't solo" but more that that "shouldn't". And yes, it is obvious that some deep dives got a lot more attention than others. I do think Monk is a much simpler class than a Shadowknight or a Druid, however.

Nideak

Ralz Are you calling me simple!?!?

I've been called worse. 😉

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