RIP DPS fighter...

Leum

I have to say, I approve of the changes with fighter and I am enjoing reading all the comments in their section.

Puma

it needed to happen. there was just no real reason to play a rogue over a fighter when they were doing the same if not more damage and able to be that beefy/tanky.

Jeembo

All that needed to happen was a nerf to the DPS, not making it impossible to be a DPS Fighter.

Xyshina

Puma that’s why there were so many fighters!!! Oh wait..

Leum

Jeembo Vengeance is thier attempt at this. Its so funny to read the comments like: "They need to add a way to get Vengeance when you are not being attacked!"

Briggs

I strongly disagree with forcing Fighters into a tanking role. I think the fighter being the most base class thematically (no poisons, no stealth, no internal energy, no magic, no pet, ect ect ect) Should be able to be a toolbox character. Tanking and DPSing based on gear, stance, and mindset. I know it "breaks" their goal for each class to have a defined role, but a fighter was always going to thematically break that role. They do so in every game ever made. They FIGHT things, with whatever weapons and gear they have, be that a bow, a two handed axe, a spear, dual knives, a sword and shield, ect...

I also think almost all classes should be able to off spec dps (not as good as main spec, but still doable and welcome in groups looking for that role to be filled) That does not mean make them as good as DPS characters or giving them DPS utility, it means letting them fill that role but doing so subpar with the ability to heal or tank on the side.

Briggs

Xyshina I disagree with this as well, Fighters will always be more popular than rogues even if rogues are better. Its the most popular archetype in most games tabletop games as well as rpgs. Look at the data from Baldurs Gate, they were going crazy because most of the player base picked "Human Male Fighter". They deliberately nerfed it before launch compared to the system it was based on, and people STILL picked it even if it was a weaker choice.

Jeembo

Leum Except they already effectively nerfed Fighter DPS by removing the chance to have Rend hit twice and putting Frenzy behind a cooldown and resource requirement.

Making that resource only available if you are being attacked makes it impossible to DPS effectively.

Just to clarify, people such as myself and Xyshina do not think Fighter should do more DPS than a Rogue. I would personally be fine if Fighter did 75% of a Rogue's DPS.

Leum

Jeembo Okay, that would be reasonable if Rogues were 75% as tanky as Fighters, which we will never be. Tanking is fun, maybe that can just be a thing and let DPS classes DPS.

Briggs

Leum This is not a good argument, rogues have utility that fighters do not have in stealth mechanics and other various things. Fighters are only combat characters, they should excel that that.

Xyshina

Leum dumb argument when rogues get poisons and stealth. They can bring attack speed or casting speed slows and snares. Stealth is huge for scouting and CRs. Rogues get other functions than dps, and do it well. Fighter should have a secondary function (damage) but not do as much as pure dps.

Leum

Those are both strong points. Rogues DO get a lot of utility, most of it we didn't ask for and Stealth is not what it used to be. I really don't have a problem with FIghters doing decent damage, I suppose you are right, they don't have anything but melee ablilities so they should excel at them. Seems like this rework works in that reguard. But thinking that Fighters should be able to have a play style that allows them to compete with DPS classes for that position in a group is what I do not like, and I am glad that is dead.

Jeembo

Leum Hope you enjoy never being able to find a tank for your groups because no one is playing them since they are only allowed to do one role whereas some other classes are allowed to do multiple roles in a pinch.

Mesh

Jeembo

Except they already effectively nerfed Fighter DPS by removing the chance to have Rend hit twice and putting Frenzy behind a cooldown and resource requirement.

Something like 90% of your DPS comes from autoattacks. The changes to Fighter skills make a negligible difference to their DPS.

With a full DPS gear set and buffed I'm pretty sure Fighters still do more DPS than any of the caster classes.

Sweepingstrikes

Cleave added, need Titan’s Grip now.

Jeembo

Mesh From my experience, I would estimate about 75% of our DPS comes from autos.

Caster classes bring utility in addition to DPS, Fighter brings nothing that can even compare to the utility of a Wizard. I also doubt Fighter is outdpsing a Wizard.

But even if everything you say is true, I still think it is bad design to lock abilities behind an RNG mechanic that only the tank can use. No other class is so restricted.

Mesh

Jeembo
I'd say being able to outdamage DPS classes while tanking is pretty good utility.

Jeembo

Mesh Except that is not happening?

Mesh

Jeembo
You think not?

Impossible to be certain without a parser but I'm pretty confident if you added up the total damage done over an hour or so in a typical camp session the Fighter would be higher than any caster.

Consistent auto damage, double/triple attacks and a buff suite that heavily favors physical damage. Most importantly, Fighters don't have to meditate.

Jeembo

Mesh I think if that was the case they would nerf Fighter DPS into the ground and since they haven't done that I am assuming you are incorrect.

They should let us parse, at least during beta.