Shaman Deep Dive!

Nullus

ThatGMApollo well this isn’t Classic EQ so.. lol

Nullus

wizard I also feel like people here have this clinging mentality that this game SHOULD be another EQ Classic clone. And that everything the devs do need to stick to that, they’re making their own game with their own direction and I like that.. if people wanna play classic EQ there’s plenty of versions of that around where they can. I however am here to play M&M and my class choices will solely be based on what the devs vision of those classes are. Does that mean there shouldn’t be improvements? No but that also means I’m not mad about having to become a can spam bot to crack heals that a cleric could do better with clarity and half the effort either. Far to many games have overlap and I appreciate what the devs are trying to do here even if that makes the hardcore classic EQ crowd upset and in their feelings.

Velthorian

Ouch, this is a double whammy for shamans, (35 min) which were not doing so well after last re-work. brutal. No one is rolling that on EA... i find it odd that no Totem or Curse type abilities where added. Totem's are pretty standard fare for shamans in many arpg/mmo. Not much in EQ, but we saw it a bit more in Wow. EQ did get totems later as AA abilities, but they where never as polished as they could be. I agree with others sentiment that the "Unique Identity" of shaman's is not sound enough, at the core, the way it's implemented in MNM currently.

Growlron

Who the hell thought reducing the duration of buffs was a good idea?? FFS man. AND 35 minutes??? what kind of pulled from my ass number is that?

While we want players to buff outside of their group as a form of social cooperation, the hour-long buffs are reducing the appeal of bringing buffing classes into groups.

NO. Not at all. People don't bring shamans because CLERICS are significantly better healers and DRUIDS have significantly better utility. The soul was ROBBED from shaman. The versatility that was pick-pocketed and given to other classes is gone. Our value proposition was destroyed.

You expect players who value their time.. LEVELING EFFICIENCY.. to want a class that has to make the group stop every 35 minutes to rebuff. WHAT ARE WE DOING RIGHT NOW???? Groups don't want downtime, they want efficiency. They want a well oiled machine. And when things are going smoothly, they chat and get social. They aren't going to socialize during downtime.. they are going to go refill drinks or piss. And get annoyed they have to sit and wait to kill more mobs.

Consume update might be ok. The healing reduction% will need reviewed and adjusted to the correct amount. I assume for now it will be bad and they will refine it.

Didnt address DoT focus
Didnt address the stupid bear form
Didnt address the failure to add spirit
Didnt address parity of healers

Growlron

Velthorian I cant imagine many people wanting to play this. People will just play druid.

Growlron

Nullus that demographic is their primary audience. I respect that this is a NICHE game for a NICHE audience.. but they are alienating the NICHE audience they have. The goal is to have SOME players. not a ton of players.

kloqqa

How does the new consume work if you get shielded from a cleric? If you can just spam it while being shielded then sham/cleric new meta

Esar

I don’t understand why they have to over complicate things with a new consume.

They need to adjust the old consume

Mesh

Melee Slow Spells: lowered cost (by as much as half per rank) and reduced duration of Omen of Lethargy line (1 min for ranks 1-4, 30 sec for rank 5).

This is just . . . weird. Reducing the mana cost is fantastic but then reducing the duration to 30s-1m so we potentially have to cast it multiple times per fight completely undermines the benefit of the reduced cost? Feels a bit like one step forward, two steps back.

Added alternative version of Consume: "Consuming Pact" (1s cast, 8s recast, single scaling rank, drains health for mana, applies a 2-minute debuff reducing incoming healing on Shaman). Normal Consume cooldown for ranks 2-4 reduced to 40 seconds.

Yet another spell on a class that already suffers from spell bloat. Get rid of this and just adjust Consume please.

There's no need to overcomplicate it. Reduce the health cost and mana return by 50% and lower its cooldown to 15s.

Nazgrimn

Mesh Right? I don't get the over complication of this whole debacle.
Consume was just fine. FFS, just adjust the cooldown and mana it returns. What is so hard about that?

Caffeen

I did some napkin math, and there doesn't seem to be a situation in which the new Consuming Pact makes sense to use.

I performed some tests with my wife's shaman (Level 52)
I based it on a two minute and 40 second period, which is about the time it takes to cast Pact 6x and wait for the debuff to fall off so you can heal.
My math is as follows, sorry for any mistakes:

Consuming Pact costs 162 hp for 182 mana. (At her level)
Consume IV costs 528 hp for 360 mana.
Six casts of Pact is 972 hp for 1092 mana over 160 seconds
Four casts of Consume IV is 2112 hp for 1440 mana over 160 seconds

So Consume IV comes out ahead with enough extra mana to heal and balance out the health cost difference, WITHOUT the massive risk of having to sit at 33% hp for two full minutes.

Old Consume is the clear winner, and this doesn't even take into account how much you lose from the healing debuff reducing other incidental healing sources. (Regeneration, HP Regen items, Paladin group heal, bard heal, etc)

TLDR; Old Consume is better than Consuming Pact in every way

Luda

Caffeen
Interesting way to analyze it but I think you're trying to equalize the risk, thus as intended, Consume IV should come out ahead (no risk)

Caffeen

[unknown] What do you mean? My example doesn't equalize the risk. With Consume you can heal between casts whenever it's convenient and/or safe. If the puller says "BIG PULL INC", you can drop a heal on yourself at any time and be ready.

With Pact, you have a tiny window every 160 seconds where you can heal. Which... I just realized means that if you use the HOT, you have to sit there for 24 seconds while it ticks before you can start using Pact again. Yet another L for Pact.

Zorg

Mesh was my first thought too.

If you are having to make a new thing to solve the old thing then it suggest the old thing you created to solve the even older thing isnt as good a solution as you thought.

Whats next? A consume that actually increases your healing received but doesnt restore any mana?

I love Shaman, and I don't even care if it isnt the same as EQ shaman, but at some point surely the folk in charge need to step in and go woo back lad. Lets just keep this nice and simple here.

Real taking another bite to make the pie even and soon there will be none left

Growlron

One thing we'd planned on in the original class overview, but decided against as we worked on the update:
"Less: generic convenience conjurations" didn't happen. Food, Drink, Bandages, Manastones, and the elemental weapon-summon lines all carried through essentially unchanged. When talking with elementalist players, it was clear that they valued these spells and the utility they bring to a party and did not want to lose them. The one genuinely new elemental-themed conjuration is a Ring of Waterbreathing.

Sure didnt give a fuck what shamans valued and wanted. And what happened to removing overlap?? Isn't that EXACTLY why the shaman and shadow knight got fucked over?

Consecrations are a major new mechanic for Paladins to interact with, and offer a combination of offensive and defensive benefits.

So glad ANOTHER class got a major new mechanic while we got phoned in. Wonderful.

Spor

I've lost all hope for shaman and moved on. None of the changes make any sense at all to me. I have zero desire to play the class anymore.

SyntaxOmitted

Come join us Wizards in purgatory, boys. It's lonely in here too.

Esar

Spor this is how I feel as well. Seems like a lost cause at this point. Not playing shaman. I’ll switch to Druid if I play a healer

Nullus

Why does every here complaining about this game want it to just be another EQ emulation clone?

This isn’t EverQuest

SK don’t need pets..

SHM doesn’t need to become a Canni spam bot.

All I see day in and day out is a bunch of people mad because the people making this game aren’t copying EverQuest.

If you want the true EverQuest classic experience you have PLENTY of options. Let the devs work and make their own game.

I shouldn’t be surprised to be honest though EQ Classic players are some of the most self entitled brats I’ve met since I started playing MMOs in the 90s how some things just never change.

Nazgrimn

Nullus I think you're missing the entire point. We're not asking to be an EQ Shaman clone. Have you bothered to read any of the original ideas in this thread? How we've been asking for some kind of mechanic to make us different?

To post something like this boggles my mind.
Here's the issue. Our spells cost too much goddamn mana to be able to keep up with everything. Consume was a means of alleviating that a bit and it's been taken away without proper adjustments.

Now buff duration has shortened, making our jobs even more tedious. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

It's just not a fun class anymore. I'd rather play a druid where golden nectar seems to be pouring forth.

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