Wiz mana costs, mana regen, and reclaim magic

Unchainedfury

I didn't experience that at all, both prior to and after the rework. I did notice most wizards drop off from playing post rework (believe lvl 45+ at the time), but there were still one or two hanging around and we didn't have any problems inviting them. No one sat around saying, "nah, wizard dps is bad let's pick something better".

Again, I concur there are gaps in varying levels that need addressing, for ALL classes. Also, with the highest burst dmg in the game, there must be some drawbacks.

Raybane

Unchainedfury You obviously would need to play a Wizard to get any experience of how it is to play one. I have tested quite a lot of the classes and Wizard is the only class where I got turned down from a group looking for dps due to being a Wizard.

Siwone

There's always a danger with the community forming an image of a class being bad. It doesn't necessarily have to be true for it to harm the players of that class. It happened quite a bit with old MMORPGs. If no proper metrics are available to disprove such sentiments it's hard to get rid of them.

A couple posters already brought it up but it is indeed a question of uptime vs downtime. Strictly speaking about mana recovery and spending rate; if the downtime is 5 minutes how much uptime do you get for that? I think most would agree that you need more than 5 minutes of uptime for 5 minutes of downtime. Even if downtime is part of the game it would seem a bit silly for it to take up a larger portion. If your mana is gone with a handful of casts it can't take 5 minutes (or more) to recover it. There needs to be a tuned balance of mana costs, in-combat recovery and downtime recovery so that the desired outcome is achieved. Of course it is up to the devs to decide where that balance lies.

Crow

I love the Wizard as is. I started a second Wizard to play through the lower levels again and the mana regen is insane. I barely ever have stop casts for more than a few ticks at a time with reclaim magic.

Onelove

Siwone it’s nowhere close to that. It’s like 20% uptime, 80% downtime.

Tbh, this would be totally fine if wizard dps/damage was far and away the strongest during that 20%. But there are quite a few things that can equal that damage given MAYBE 10 more seconds.

It’s just not bursty enough to justify the current SITuation. xD

Onelove

Crow what level is your highest wizard and at what level is your “insane mana regen” wizard?

WhiskyJack

We need more "active" mana Regen. Passive regen per 6 sec tic is fine. They should bring back an improved execute mechanic (plenty of good ideas already shared on the discord but my favorite was the execute window), make Reclaim and Arcane Invocation % of total mana and moderately reduce the cooldowns, and finally tune down mana cost on damage spells + moderate damage increase on single target DD and quad AE.

Wizard fixed

Ernst

Did anyone here that is complaining about the downtime ever play a classic EQ wiz? Just wondering if those of us that aren’t bothered by the downtime are hardened by EQ wiz, while those who aren’t liking it didn’t.

Mesh

Ernst
I think most people are more concerned with M&M and not with EQ otherwise they'd be playing EQ.

It's not a matter of being bothered by downtime. It's that downtime occuring during combat.

Wizard is advertised as a top tier DPS class but it cannot be a top tier DPS class while also meditating through the majority of combat.

Siwone

Ernst while M&M might be heavily inspired by EQ it doesn't need to be exactly like EQ. They are already moving away from EQ design with the classes. I think it is better for the game's long term health to find its own identity. Things shouldn't work a certain way just because it was like that in EQ.

Onelove

Siwone yep agree. This is not EQ. Wish we would stop treating it like EQ 1.5.

Brettanomyces

Ernst I played a wizard to max level in EQ/p99. Lots of downtime but it never felt obscene to me.
It also doesn't feel obscene here on MnM either. You really just need to be managing your mana pool constantly, but that to me is the whole core gameplay mechanic of a wizard. Determine when to burst or not based on your current regen rates using the tools you or your group has.
I've grouped with plenty of wizards on MnM, never felt like they weren't contributing. I duod as a ranger + wiz combo and we had no issues with keeping up either.

Hit+Sit is the wizard life.
Big Hit = Big Sit.
Little Hit = Little Sit.

It feels like every one is arguing over how many hits before a sit, but to me it feels like where it should.

The main problem I have is the early level slog can be a bit much but that's why I take the swordsman trait and just get to whacking.

Kalarian

Wizards are by far the lowest damage in the game in a sustained group. They need help badly. Glyphs are also a bait.

Onelove

Brettanomyces did you med for 8 minutes in EQ?

Ernst

Onelove
I never timed it but EQ med time seems longer than M&M med time. I don’t have any numbers to back it up.

Ice

With the focus of MnM on group content versus end game raiding Wizard could absolutely use solid sustained dps playstyle options.

Being able to crank out massive numbers is great, but sustained dps is what matters 1-60.

Brettanomyces

Onelove honestly I'm not sure, I never timed it. Definitely wasn't fast though. I liked it though. Quad kite, med break, do RL work, repeat.

Raybane

Onelove Med times were long in EQ and you couldn't even see as you were stuck watching the spell book the first 30 or so levels.

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