New Early Shaman Level Experience vs Other Reworks

Luda

I want to set the tone here with the goal of this post is to ensure the SHM early levels are fun to play as some of the other re-worked classes (which have been awesome)

Many of us have been in Beta for a while, before a lot of reworks etc. I've play several of the reworks, esp the Priest classes so I restarted SHM (have a 50 that leveled at the start of beta) to test the very early experience post revamps / tweak to get a perspective vs the other reworks. (no twinking or outside buffs)

Starting

1 heal and 1 buff (zerker).
Took approx 15 mins to get to level 2.
Slowest killing rate of any class. Vs other Priests: Cleric kill speed is 500% faster with the melee option. DRU starts with a nuke and killed 300% faster.
Recommendation: Swap out the starting Buff (berserker spirit) for Spirit Bane spell or one of the DoTs. This would make the 1st level much smoother vs weak melee'ing.

Levels 2 to 4 (this took roughly 3hrs... as cleric I was level 6 at the 3hr mark)

Very slow. You get 1 nuke, 1 buff, and 1 heal.
Cleric is x10 faster minimum due to melee and stronger nuke. Druid get a dot and a nuke.
Recommendation: Grant the SHM one of the dot lines at 1st level - perhaps a lower version of the Magic DoT. OR (better), provide them both DoT lines at level 1 to be unique. The DD is terrible.

Leveling post 4 till 8ish (w/ new spells)

Continues to be very slow vs the other priests. One dot and the terrible nuke barely gets us along. Debuffs are not useful due to TTK. The DoT is the long duration and should be the Magic, short duration to match the TTK of this lever range.
Healing is just subpar. Druids and Priests get two types of heals, SHM spamming just the 1 direct heal.
Recommendation: Provide the Renewel (HoT) heal line at 4 or 8 and layer in the Ghost (magic) dot line sooner

By level 12, the priests seem to "even" out on things but it is a ROUGH ride for the Shaman till then. Druids seasons start to shine and Clerics continue to dps really well. Consume still needs tweaking to keep ensure the Shaman keeps up with what its role is (debuffing and healing to fulfill its support/heal role) and give it some kind of unique gameplay.

Good luck new shamans getting into Beta and good luck to us all at EA.

Cabiri

I think the largest difference in early leveling for shaman pre and post-rework is the level at which the 'enfeeble' stat debuff line is granted. Previously you could purchase it at level 1, and now I believe it is level 12.

This ability was probably overtuned for early levels, allowing a shaman to pretty comfortably solo white/yellow mobs in the 1-5 range with just the debuff and some melee, but now killing anything is maddening slow and risky without other offensive tools. Totally agree Cleric is still eye opening in their solo capabilities at the early levels and much stronger than shaman.

This isn't really a shaman specific issue though, pretty much any class that needs to rely on spell damage costing mana in the earliest levels has it pretty rough. The clear winners of the early levels are the classes that can fall back on mana free melee abilities (see: Cleric).

Ashreon

There is a clear disconnect between what they said they would do with the new class philosophy/design and what they then actually went about doing. It's affecting the class not just in the beginning, but throughout the entire gameplay. There is night and day between the classes that got reworked, some got very cool new features, others feel like a very inexperienced person was responsible for the redesign.

So, I don't think it's fair to compare leveling experience early game solo, it is supposed to be a group focused game, that being said, no one wants shamans in groups at the moment, so either way your experience is miserable.

It's honestly hilarious if it is correct that the first heal is a direct heal, when it was touted as a natural regeneration healer....

Taron

Reminds me of what happened to Wizards. Wonder if it was the same designer (I know they've divvied up the reworks between different designers)? Wizards used to be fun and have a lot of things right from level 1, like invis. They had like 8-10 spells. After rework the had a grand total of 2, and only a couple more by 4. All the fun stuff like TK and such were pushed to much higher levels. Wizard is now a terrible experience for the first 16-20 levels. Sounds like same thing for Shaman now. Other classes kept some class-defining abilities early on though.

I sometimes wonder if the designers (or at least whomever did Wizard and Shaman) are only testing what the class feels like at like level 40 and neglecting to consider what it's like getting that high and the major discrepancy between classes even post-rework. I think levels that abilities come online needs another overall inter-class pass for more consistency and fun and viability for earlier levels - like the devs used to talk about way back in the early days of wanting each class to have their core features and be ready for grouping ASAP.

Luda

Ashreon
I can see where you are coming from relative to low level comparison. I was hoping to shine a light on a clear "less than fun" experience vs other reworks (except wiz). While the first 8-12 levels isn't a whole bunch to the game, it's often the bigger reason a player will continue to play (aka had fun for the money invested).

Luda

Taron Totally agree that Wizards are similar (and sadly, it was my 2nd class I wanted to experience and never could get past 8 because of how un-fun it was)

Zorg

Ashreon and meant to be the best soloer.

Can say numbers need to be tweaked but this isnt even numbers.. its the vibe, its justice, its mabo, its the law. Its all of these things.

But mainly, its the vibe. Yeah

Zace

I think the reworks need.. reworks. 2 out of 3 classes I wanted to play have turned me off after the changes, the last class I have hope for is ShD and they haven't been touched yet. Fingers crossed. A lot of the changes feel kind of tone deaf as others have pointed out. It's like they're changing stuff just for the sake of saying they changed it.

Zorg

Zace yeah its a bit that way. I play shaman necro and sk mainly, and have had to wait until the end.

After seeing all the gusto about druid and wizard first up i was hopeful but it has felt like every rollout since has had less and less work put in, with little reference to the deep dives. Just feels sloppy

Zaroua

Cabiri I think the largest difference in early leveling for shaman pre and post-rework is the level at which the 'enfeeble' stat debuff line is granted. Previously you could purchase it at level 1, and now I believe it is level 12.

There's more to it than that. I'm going to take what you said and then double, triple, and quadruple down on it.
Double - Berserker Spirit's effect on combat effectiveness are so insignificant at low levels that the first rank should be the upgraded version of the spell line that you get at 16. A +2 stat buff FEELS super lame, especially when you can't tell the difference in makes.
Triple - It's not that Enfeeble should be buyable at level one, it should instead be of two starting spells shamans get along with their standard direct heal. You make your character, you load into NH because you're not a stinking elf, and you have a Scroll of Enfeeble and a Scroll of Healing (or whatever the name is now).
Quadruple - Enfeeble at 1 level is part of the Shaman's core combat identify: debuffing mobs. This teaches new Shaman players how amazing Enfeeble is and why you should cast it on everything through the most effective teacher there is: pain. The burned hand teaches best. No Enfeeble? Pain. Enfeeble? No pain. Now you'll see way less Shamans not casting it on mobs which is better for the game as a whole. This effectively turns Enfeeble into a subtle class tutorial.

Luda

Zaroua
I do like a debuff being avail at level 1. Couple that with a DoT and you get a "basic" start to the class. At 4th you get your self buff, another debuff, and stronger heal. At 8th, get a 2nd DoT, your regen healing, and debuff upgrades.

Cornmuffin

+1, I agree with the sentiment that shaman and wizards get their stuff dragged out too late compared to other classes. (Since their reworks)

I haven’t felt that way with the other reworks.

And hard agree with changing shaman starting spells to increase 1-4 ttk a notch.

nyslater

I've been messing around with early game characters to get a feel for things at EA launch, and the time to kill for the first few levels is 4-5x faster on Cleric than it is on Shaman. Druid is in between. That gap is enormous.

I think the ideas mentioned above about starting with Enfeeble are good.

It's sad to say, but it really feels like Shaman was designed by one person and then with the revamp was taken over by someone else who did not like the original design philosophy or the nuance that went into the class.

Nazgrimn

Zaroua I actually agree with you for once. Think that would be a valuable teaching tool and would make leveling more enjoyable.

I still think Shaman should get some kind of melee ability as well. They've always been more of the melee'ing type of healer.
But instead they gave it to Clerics, even after their stated vision was to move away from the martial and focus more on the chanted hymns (spells I'm assuming)

Growlron

Exactly. They striped Shaman of everything that made shaman fun and exciting and turned it into a healbot buffbitch.

No pet. No melee. No solo. No resurrection. No AoE.

Druid gets to be the jack of all trades solo-er
Cleric gets to melee and resurrect.

We get to sit the hell down and prayer we get mana before the tank dies. IFFFFF anyone will even let us in their group.

A group healer that no one wants to play with. #dumpstered

Tbox

Devs are saying shaman is fine and we are wrong 🙁 . Great write up early game matters. Shaman got it raw and we would all be foolish to think they are going to admit they screwed up and fix it correctly. Like it or not this is pretty much how it’s gonna be besides a few changes.

Jephry

Tbox I haven't seen a word from the devs, but I'd love to read their comments...or any glimmer of reasoning.

Velthorian

Massive, sweeping, class changes so late in the dev cycle. Such an important aspect, arguably the most important aspect of the game. All hands on deck, stop everything else, fix that first. Shocking it's so late.

Luda

Just checking to see if anyone restarted as a Shaman or are playing in the late teen / 20s / 30s. Would like to hear how things are going in those ranges of leveling play.

How is the new Pact (consume) working out
What has been fun
What hasn't been fun

Grand

Luda

Absolute nightmare...

They completely gutted our healing potential early game.

I just hit 20 on a deep gnome shaman, level 9-20 we don't have a new heal...we get 38hp direct healing, and the useless pact of renewal at 64hp over 24seconds (down from 140/24) which is ~ 16hp per tick...while the mobs in fallen pass (15-20) are absolutely trucking.. This is the absolute worst iteration of shaman healing yet and I don't see many healing like this in EA.

I had to resort to being the puller, having a secondary healer, or making sure paladin was the tank, and a bard was in the group.

I'm pretty sure a ranger could have outhealed me last night in fallen pass...struggling every pull, literally can't med, spamming 38hp and consuming pact.

They need to move the level 20 direct heal to 16 ASAP. and just remove pact of renewal at level 12.

The second you hit 20, this is resolved because you finally get a new direct heal, AND a HoT that is worth casting.