Shaman is in a purty gud state

TexKSAH

Djlovedrop Your right. I had such high hopes for this game and the Shaman and then Deep Dive came and inspite of the total disappointment and nothing but nerfs, I gave it a chance. Then the other shoe dropped with patch 29 and one of my most enjoyable aspects of the game, socializing with everyone while giving away free buffs to all while waiting for friends got hit with a sledgehammer.

#1 healer in Fallen Watch? I find that hard to believe. And we were never the best healing class, but our buffs, debuffs and canni-dance made up for it as well as DPS from our pet and sometimes having extra mana to drop a DOT. Now we have to buff twice as often, debuff 3X more often and our heals took a massive efficiency hit (hence calling BS on being the #1 healer) and we have less mana to do it all with. Just doesn't sound like a Shaman I want to play.

And since I'm not playing, I have time to post 🙂

Djlovedrop

Luda Yea. That's the tuning part I was mentioning. I just don't subscribe to the "its unplayable" aspect.

Do I think the nerfs are a little to hard? Yes
Do i think they needed to nerf shamans before? Yes.

Both can be true same time. Just have to find the right balance. Anyone quitting over them figuring out the balance probably should not be playing EA. That was all my statement was about.

Djlovedrop

TexKSAH since you aren't playing please read my post again since you have alot of free time. No one said they are the #1 healer in fallen watch. They are 1 healing fallen watch. I see you are going to be impossible to talk to. Take care lol

TexKSAH

Djlovedrop I have no doubt the Shaman can heal groups. I never said anything to the contrary. I just said we went through 2 nerf patches in a row and with those nerfs, we are now only going to be good at healling/buffing/debuffing with restrictions instead of what we were which was healing/buffing/debuffing plus adding some DPS with Dog and sometimes adding DOT when mana was good.

I never said we didn't need some balance and even said I agree with some of the nerfs to the Shaman. ALL I have said is how many fricken whacks with the nerf bat to we need to endure before we get something good!!!!!! And 2 patches in a row with MULTIPLE whacks and NOTHING good has got me soured on this game.

Fell

Djlovedrop I've explained it to him already. Yes, FW is the only zone in the game where a shaman would find it difficult to solo heal (a druid will find it even harder). But -- and this is an important 'but' -- it's also a zone where the most successful groups I've had were always cleric AND shaman or cleric AND druid. I've even had groups there with -all three- priests in them. Slow progress ... but safer.

Luda

Djlovedrop
Gotcha, makes sense.

There's a lot of feedback out there and those that actively play the class just want to ensure the right stuff is floating up. I've given my 2c and posted after a good amount of gameplay has a PUG healer, duo, solo, and full group. That's what we are here for.

I do think the SHM community needs to relax a bit. Posts are getting a unconstructive and it's going to bury potentially "informed" feedback.

I guess this is my ask to the SHMs out there to step back and let them cook. We've said our peace more than enough (3 huge threads, 300+ posts).

Growlron

Fell bullshit.. absolutely not. that is a flat out bold faced, proven lie. I have seen the other classes forums. The ONLY class with even CLOSE to the level of push back on their deep dive as shaman was wizard. No other class had universal rage.

And you can go through the class write ups and compare them to the deep dives.. no class deep dive has been as off base from the original write up as shaman. its not even close.

I never ONCE complained about not healing like a cleric. I said, we are already different enough from cleric.

Yes.. a very in depth list of what they can do here https://forum.monstersandmemories.com/d/554-shaman-re-rework

Wall

I dunno if its fair to say that Shaman are uniquely hostile against their rework. I basically see the same three names upset about Shaman everywhere - be it the forums, discord or their own streams. Dozens of posts a day about the exact same topic from the same group of players for weeks now. I bet if you took unique contributors Shaman is about the same as everything else.

The player base of other class communities seem to drop their thoughts once or twice and move on.

Growlron

Wall Because most shamans quit or moved to other classes.

The only other class I was remotely interested in was Shadow Knight and they removed that from the game.

No shaman. No shadow knight. Guess im just not playing.

Phlyn

Jephry dont use the high risk canni then?

Phlyn

Wall

its definitely a small group of individuals, shaman are still highly played and highly sought after.

that said wizards were similar for a good while till the vocal minority gave up.

Taron

Interestingly, I've been polling the server for class numbers for the past 3 days for everyone level 10+ and when I averaged the numbers together Shaman is still #3 in popularity behind Elementalist and Druid. So rework hasn't stopped people from playing them a lot (yet?). By contrast, most everyone seemed thrilled with Paladin rework yet they were still lower at #5 in popularity (and I'm guessing will drop more over time once the newness wears off).

Phlyn that said wizards were similar for a good while till the vocal minority gave up.

I wouldn't say Wizards have given up. I still regularly see in-game in /ooc and on Discord it said that Wizards are probably the least happy of all classes with their rework. Heck I just watched a YouTube video yesterday from PennyLoafer where she mentioned Wizards cried a lot about their rework, did NOT get a follow-up attempt at a fix like Shaman did, and are still upset about it.

That said, Wizards are still #6 in popularity in my polling (tied with Beastmaster, just below Paladin), so I guess it's not bad enough to keep people from playing them anyway. And even the complainers are mostly talking about low-level Wizards and admit by 40+ they are pretty good.

Zaroua

Djlovedrop I think the issue is shamans went from gods to men.

This is the core of all the whining. Shamans were blatantly overpowered and had to be brought down. Can't buff the other healers to be on par with Shamans without retrofitting the entire game, so the devs took the dog out behind the shed and shot it. Now we wait for devs to balance, tune, add, and fix the healers. And the combat formula. And the tanks. And the mobs. Only difference is that now the healers are better balanced against one another, which puts things at the starting line. Druids and Clerics were doing ice skating short track while Shamans were doing 100 meter sprints; now everyone's doing a 400 meter run.

wizard

imagine holding a grudge against people who play a class you don't play to the point that you're willing to come on the forums and lie and be disingenuous about other people's concerns with the class just to keep it nerfed so you can "win" your imagined war against people who play an elf pixel game slightly differently from you

amazing

Wall The player base of other class communities seem to drop their thoughts once or twice and move on.

because most other classes didn't get completely gutted and made terrible like shaman did, and most other classes don't have an entire group dedicated to ensuring the class is always bad fighting tooth and nail to try to keep it nerfed

Growlron

wizard Bro this ^^^^ The anti shaman contingent is insane. The shaman hatred and jealousy is disgusting. And Im very upset that some of the devs expose these anti shaman sentiments. Even the devs who arent directly designing the classes still get strong input into the class design and influence the choices internally.

The old Druid vs Shaman rivalry was all in good fun in EQ.. but some druids took it way to seriously.

Funny how the druid got this massive new mechanic and are now the top played class. Cant imagine how that happened.

Fell

@wizard The only ones lying here are those claiming (a) devs hate shamans (they don't), (b) shamans are now the worst healers (they're 2nd out of three), or (c) they're unviable now in groups (they aren't). I'm pretty sure ENC buffs (haste in particular) will get a nerf bat too, and then shaman will really have nothing whatsoever to complain about.

Oh, and those who are implying that druids are now the most played class because of the deep-dive rework. Since Alpha, druids have -always- been tops on pop.

kloqqa

Fell Fell I see you arguing from a balance perspective, but most shaman players are arguing from a fun/playstyle perspective. Sure, players now might roll shaman and compare it to cleric and feel more balanced than before.

However, sacrificing fun and unique class mechanics is the WORST way to achieve balance. Could we not have adjusted the shaman in a way that didn't nuke the fun playstyle? After the deepdive, rework, 35minbuff combo-slam, it's not really surprising that shaman players would be complaining, regardless of how they place in a balance tierlist these days.

Qorsk

Wow, lots of responses here. Can tell many are excited and passionate for the game 🍻

I get what a lot of peeps are saying about the nerfs, but lets be honest here, them there numbers were getting way out of hand, and the heal nerf at least was blanket to all. I was using lower tier heal spells because they were so big I didn't need the new version. Now (...well, when i get leveling again at EA), I actually have something to look forward to when a new heal spell is next up.

Consuming Pact is absolutely amazing. You guys ridiculing it without really trying it need to give it a go. Its -67% healing as well, so you can still get some healage. High risk, but extremely high reward. Impossible to run out of mana with that. If your group sucks, I wouldn't use it. If its good and you want to accept that risk, then you have that option and it adds a ton of value.

Our DoTs hit crazy hard, our heals are balanced, our debuffs and buffs are good. Im happy with the class overall.

Fell

@kloqqa Nearly all the shamans here are arguing not from a "fun" perspective, but that they've lost power vs. other classes. Personally, I think the change to canny adds a fun and interesting element. Before it was simply a mindless routine: canny, heal, canny heal ... now you actually need to be strategic about using it, because of the big target it puts on your back. Besides the social aspect of an MMO (feet pix, anyone?) fun boils down to one thing: risk vs. reward --- and without risk, the rewards are meaningless.

I certainly agree that the additional buffslop isn't fun. But that's not part of the shaman rework, but something we're all suffering from now.

Puma

I do also think the new canni is awesome

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