Today is a good day

Leum

Looks like they figured something out to balance Charm as far as being a crazy source of DPS for groups. Lets see how things pan out but I think they might have threaded the needle.

Caiden7777

Threading the needle would have been balancing the risk with reward factor. And by risk, I don't mean the risk of dying. It's trivial to not die when charm breaks. If you have SOW you simply won't die in most facets of this game if you are paying even a minimal of attention. "Risk" is really annoyance of using the ability at all. But in reality, unless your CHA is greater than 50, charm is not even a consideration. If your CHA is > than 50, still expect the immediate charm break to happen more than you'd expect. So they completely obliterated the reward factor, and didn't consider the risk (annoyance) factor.

Leum

Well, what I meant was that they probably found a way to make charm less OP in groups and allowed Chanters to still use it to solo (for now). I still see more nerfs in the future once we have thousands of people playing. For some reason a large portion of the player base is drawn to soloing a multiplayer game...

Reviever

Caiden7777

Leum it wasn't a balance of charming, it was a straight out nerf without addressing any downsides. that's really really bad development imo. They didn't adress the risks like breaks, the dmg of the broken charm mob shouldn't be the same as it normally is, the risk should be lower, since the reward is drastically lower too.

they need to actually BALANCE the spell. atm it's just a outright kill of the spell.

-make it break alot less
-make it a 10 seconds window after a break where the broken charm pet deals the same dmg to you as when u charm it, not make it hit u like a truck
-give a different source of dmg spells to the enchanter, which are actually useable and mana efficient to balance out the lost charm dps, which was the enchanter's best tool for dishing out dps.
-make enchant ally worth more and be more useful
-let us summon our pet with a charm together, but nerf the damage output of your summoned pet to 10% but keep it's ac/hp values so u got a pet to l mitigate the risk. once the charm isn't aligned to you anymore, make it back to full dps.

all suggestions but something has to be done to give this an actual balance. atm it's just a slaughter.

Leum

Reviever Listen, people that were abusing charm asking for balance now is pretty funny. They said it in the writeup: Charm was giving Chanters the DPS of 3 other players plus all their CC and manna regen, etc... Charm is really hard to balance. What they have done is make it so it doesn't disrupt group play by giving single groups the DPS of like 3 to 9 extra players. You can still use it to cheeze solo play, for now. Be happy with that. They took a LONG time on this change so I wouldn't expect modifications any time soon.

Reith

It's humorous seeing the people crash out about the much needed nerf. No idea why enchanters thought a support class should have a DPS god skill other than they were playing it.

Leum

Reith Predictable and enjoyable. I am glad they did something, lets see what happens and if they can stick to their guns with all their buddies in their ear about moderating the nerf.

Zaroua

Reith It's humorous seeing the people crash out about the much needed nerf. No idea why enchanters thought a support class should have a DPS god skill other than they were playing it.

Agreed. I also agree with the fact that the additional restrictions on Charm need to be revisited and potentially relaxed. The lvl 52 cap and the massively increased CHA requirements from a few months back being the two that come to mind.

Taron

Zaroua I also agree with the fact that the additional restrictions on Charm need to be revisited and potentially relaxed. The lvl 52 cap and the massively increased CHA requirements from a few months back being the two that come to mind.

I agree with this as well, even as someone who has long argued Charm should be removed from the game entirely. If it's going to be there, and it's been properly balanced in power, then there's no reason to make it also a PITA to use, nor does it make sense to take something you've had access to your entire leveling career and suddenly make it effectively unusable at the highest level.

Leum

And that is why Xilith telegraphed that research would allow charm above 52 a LONG time ago. You will have to earn the spells through hard work and sacrifice, not silver.

kridak

If only they had actually tested their change to see the ramifications...

Leum

kridak They spent months testing it, and this is a result they WANTED. Charm is no longer viable as a DPS spell in groups. Success.

Unchainedfury

NO FUN Police Thread found. Alert! Alert! Alert!

Leum

Unchainedfury im having fun 😉

Gathbard

Leum I'm not someone who plans to make heavy use of charm, or play an Enchanter really, but where is it stated that Charm being a DPS option is bad? And where is it said that the Support archetype can't have group DPS options?
I'm not saying that they should be top DPS, I'm asking if they're expected to not have any and why.
Healers have them, tanks have them, why not support?

And if they are indeed expected to have some, why can't that DPS come from charm instead of a spell, or a melee attack, at least in the case of classes where "the ability to play with other people's mind" is the main focus (aka Enchanter)?
Isn't that just a matter of balance? And if it is a matter of balance, is it entirely impossible that they went to far with the nerf?

Leum

Gathbard they have DPS from charmed pets, it's just not very impressive because they are a support class and already have a lot of tools.

Gathbard

Leum So do Healers, or are we ignoring the procs from cleric? I call those impressive. Or the "way too much of everything" Druid has? I mean, healers (rip Shaman) have both more dps and more support than support classes if we start going down the "but they have this" route.

I'm not saying that Charm should be amazing DPS, and I agree that it was too strong before, I'm just saying that they nerfed it a bit too hard. It still has to be useful in groups and significant in solo.
They can't drop a flat nerf on charmed pets by having them deal less damage and take more damage at the same time, and not by such a large difference all at once.

I'm not even playing Enchanter, and I agree that the old Charm was WAY too strong, but at least I can see that if they have no issues taking a sledgehammer to the class without considering the impact, tomorrow they can do it to any other class, so I'm not as fast to jump on the "yeah! good riddance Charm! It was too strong!" bandwagon.
Today is charm, tomorrow could be anything else, until all the fun is sucked out of the game.
Gods know that seems to be the design philosophy of this game: Feeling miserable for the sake of feeling miserable.
No thanks.
I have free alternatives for that.

Fell

Leum Without charm, enchanters cannot solo, much less solo effectively. And in a group -- given the wide variety of CC options given to other classes (much more than Classic EQ had) along with the fact that CC is much less necessary than in prior MMOs -- an enchanter will do nothing but dispense buffs and debuffs.

Personally and as an enchanter myself, I wouldn't mind the lack of charm -- if enchanters had (a) the mana-efficient dots they had in EQ to give us at least some hope of soloing, or (b) zones designed to actually require CC.

kridak

Leum the charm was weaker than the pet...that's not what they have said they wanted thus they did not test properly. they may have fixed it i haven't tested today. Take the blinders off.

Unchainedfury

Leum

Aye, you're having fun participating in, facilitating, and celebrating the destruction of other people's fun...then gloating about it.