Devs: Learn the math of charm damage

Clueless

Fell PvP? Ah, that explains the corrosively toxic attitude.

It is not toxic to call someone out for jerking themselves off for no reason. If anything, it is toxic of you to have attempted to use those facts as an argument for why you were more justified in your thoughts on the matter than I would have been.

Also, LOL @ this, when you were literally flexing being in the NWC Trailer for FW:

Fell It's pretty clear your primary intent is just to troll and flex e-Peen.

Fell

Nope, sorry not going to bite. My comment was a response to your trolling that my group is "obviously second rate and couldn't do well in FW". And the point stands: the math on mana cost alone doesn't work for sustained reverse charming in a group setting, even ignoring the other issues. Against easy content, or if you're not looking for EXP and thus don't mind sacking the pet, sure. But that's not the argument.

Clueless

Fell So you legitimately (a) just don't care about 99% of the game for the average person and want Charm to be tuned for <2% of all players' experiences and how it functions for that small of the population, and (b) still cannot grasp the strength Charm has and that it genuinely should be high cost alongside the high risk for the high yield it provides.

Great. Not sure any of that should be what devs listen to, because it is both ignorant and poor for business.

Rougar0u

It's fell, has made like 1200 post in 12 days. Let it go

Clueless

Rougar0u No idea who the guy is, just putting out my own experiences for everyone else to at least see as well.

How do you even see how often someone has posted? That's insane lol.

Rougar0u

Close your eyes point at a thread and open it. Boom Fell.

Gathbard

Clueless
Well, if you put someone on ignore, every post they "contributed to" gets a little checkmark to inform you that someone you ignored posted there.
If your ignore list is not too big and the whole forum has those little checkmarks you can kinda get a feel for it.
Not saying that it's wrong to post a lot, just that there are ways to sorta see.

Clueless

Rougar0u Pin the tail on the thread == Fell, got it. XD

Seems like he needs to take a break and might have a problem with addiction.

Clueless

Gathbard Ahhh, I see. Well, either way, hopefully nobody listens to that guy. He might mean well, but my experiences (at least for Enchanters and in FW) seem to be vastly different than his.

Even my experiences are probably not the best to go by for the average player, but his? Definitely not... If the game wants to appeal to anyone outside of the top 1% or so, I would avoid listening to anything he says lol. I feel like I am at least somewhat reasonable and try to consider all angles for most things rather than "THIS HAPPENED TO ME THEREFORE IT IS THE RULE" and basing potential changes solely off of that.

Fell

Clueless So you legitimately (a) just don't care about 99% of the game for the average person and want Charm to be tuned for <2% of all players' experiences

Not sure where you got this silliness. Had you read the thread, you'll see that "the 99%" of enchanters are in agreement with me that this invalidates charm IN GROUPS. No one uses solo tactics in groups. When you're killing several mobs a minute, the math of using one charm per mob just doesn't' work; that charm mana has to be amortized across multiple mobs.

my experiences (at least for Enchanters and in FW) seem to be vastly different than his

This is where you're getting confused. When you're 60 (which I assume you are) you're not in FW for experience, and thus you don't need to perform a swap: you can merely let the target kill your charm pet. You understand that doesn't work when you want the experience?

Clueless

Fell You understand how that doesn't work when you actually want the experience, right?

Yes, I understand that. Hence why I said my experience is vastly different than 99% of other players' (and even yours, because I was actively reverse Charming in FW while you apparently were not, RE: top 1% and "Even my experiences..."). But that does not mean that you cannot do reverse Charming in a group for leveling purposes - especially in outdoor zones, you absolutely can (and should). It will nearly triple the rate at which your group gains EXP if you do it well.

Fell

Clueless that does not mean that you cannot do reverse Charming in a group for leveling purposes - especially in outdoor zones, you absolutely can

Which is what I literally said myself, when I posted "...except on easy content where you have room to work." Then you went off on some tangent about how "my group must suck in Fallen Watch". I appreciate you agreeing with me now, though.

Gold

Clueless I grouped with enchanters since the patch. None are doing what you say and all are saying charm is broken in groups. But you're the best enchanter in the game right?

navyrob

Long time EQ enchanter thowing my 2 cp in: The nerf was way too much. Charm is useless now as OP numbers show. The summoned pet is quite powerful tho in exchange. Even if they buff charm to 175% I doubt that would be enough to deal with the hassle. I say its time let go of charm and the notion of enc DPS kings. As it stands now we would need a fixed duration to even consider casting it, and even then its not worth giving up the summoned pet.

Raybane

Gold When it comes to if something works, then the one doing and saying it works gets more credibility then the ones not doing it and claiming it doesn't work.

Fell

Raybane the one doing and saying it works gets more credibility then the ones not doing it and claiming it doesn't work.

I soloed the raid mob Pustulax using the strat of charisma-buffing my summon pet, giving it a rusty dagger, then spamming "recharge item". I obviously have more credibility by claiming it works than anyone who says otherwise.

Something works if it works No other reason.

Raybane

Fell But now we are talking about lies. If we assume neither side lies as that is still possible, then the ones not doing it doesn't prove it can't be done. But the ones doing it does prove it can be done.

Fell

Raybane But now we are talking about lies. If we assume neither side lies as that is still possible

No one said reverse charming was impossible -- we're saying it's not an efficient tactic for experience groups. He later backed off the original claim and quantified it to "outdoors", where you have much more room. It can work there, but in a full group, you're killing much too fast to expend one charm's worth of mana per mob. That's the entire reason that pre-nerf, enchanters either perma-petted, or kept the pet for at least a few mobs, to amortize that cost across pulls.

Solo, sure ... duo? OK. But no full group's doing this, especially in a dungeon setting.

Raven

Rougar0u Your summoned pet should not out-dps a charmed NPC of the same level let alone higher level. That's weird to notice, maybe it's a bug? I don't think it's planned like that.

Raybane

Fell Well, to sum up things. As I understand it so were Charm accidentally under tuned in the patch, doing 75% rather then 125%, meaning that Charm should get a decent +67% damage buff for the release. Personally I think that damage is enough for Charm to be fine, even if nowhere near what it once was.

If the situation is such that the Enchanter CC abilities are overkill, then it should also be fairly safe to use Charm in that situation. That gives Enchanters something to do when they aren't needed for their main role. But this damage doesn't have to be better then the dedicated DPS classes as it's still a side gig.

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