Cleric Deep Dive Discussion!

Fidric

[deleted] looted hammer (carrion) using holy strike melee power. Low is chance of that extra proc

[deleted]

And just announced that no money will be given for spells? Really? We can't even test some of our stuff now because we can't buy the spells back.....

Come on...

Fidric

click for proper gif of holy's strikes "righteous strike" proc FX

(dreams of DAOC smite cleric. then starts awake)

Fidric

The reactive proc heal unstated "low health" threshold seems super low % like 5-10%. Aka brown pants inducing for the little health it returns Vs large mana cost and adding up regant cost for a 40 min buff that can randomly fade (level 24 heals for 188 and costs 75c a cast. Will only work on level 14+ players)

Jerri

Don't know if this has been asked already, couldn't read through pages and pages of posts.

In regards to the cleric rework pushed out today. Please give the clerics 1 copper spells for a week or so (however long the druids had it) as cleric has MANY spells to buy. I don't charge for rezzes, I don't want to be broke on the cleric

Evo

I'll be honest, this change to a class that i picked out for EA and dedicated my time to feels so beige and underwhelming.
It feels like the class is unchanged and has fallen behind the other healers in the game.

We get block, that is excellent. We were previously advised it was a bug that we didnt have it. We are more defensive than the other healers as we have access to plate and shields.
But the thing is, its not going to be more important that our utility and heals.

Suplication has been changed to a new buff that now gives everything else + block chance and sense magic. If it's a 2min duration that will be very unfortunate.
Everything else feels just so average compared to other class changes.
I really do hope that the numbers have changed for the HP buffs, because iirc my HP buff was like 150 at lvl 38. Thats nothing compared to my tanks having 1500 HP unbuffed.

Overall, very unimpressed and now im considering if i even want to play this class for EA, which is a shame because i have no interest in the other healers.

Fidric

Evo the new 'combo buff' has a 2 hour duration.

base hp buff numbers unchanged. and the 40m 'extra hp buff with low hp proc heal that costs money and ends on proc is .. bad

zXzLenin

Clerics have also picked up a new starting trait: “Blessed.” As a class so tightly bound to their faith, Clerics enjoy a favored status, and thus may occasionally receive divine help on their adventures.

What is this trait and where does one learn/acquire it ? Its not on character creation, or already learned on a new character or on the trainer.

Fidric

Group cd heal wise. Level 20 one is 112 health tooltip. 304 mana. 0.5 cast time. 300s (5min) CD. 30 meter line of sight group.

Fidric

the new sense heading skill seems representative of my reaction to this today

BDCRetro

I like that the class is going to stay in a traditional healing role without forcing melee. I was worried a bit it was going the Vanguard direction that required melee. I enjoy meditating and healing and plan to play a Cleric in EA.

One additional question I had was regarding why using class specific reagents rather than using world dropped jewels/gems? Using dropped jewels/gems reagents to me feels more like PnP, adds flavor, and allows you to potentially use ones that you loot while playing. I suppose there may be potential balance issues I'm not considering, but I do think going this route you lose something with flavor and fun of using in-world components that have more game value than just a store bought mcguffin item.

Also going to be fun testing cone healing vs group healing and the reasons to pick one over the other.

The melee changes will be nice though for when I have to solo.

Nullen

Thanks for the work on the class deep dives.

Though, I do have to say I am very underwhelmed with this reveal. Lost the Oath spells, and gained a nice quality of life with the combined hp/mana buff. Got a nice undead nuke upgrade, but lost our undead snare so we can’t fear kite with our new melee ability/blessing. Healing kit is mostly unchanged. Nothing that really enriched the cleric playstyle, thought we may get alittle more here. We already had the best heals, but we lost some nice cooldowns.

Fidric

Holy strike wrath does not seem to scale dmg on wisdom increases. Static values. Scaled wisdom from naked to 125 wis, no dmg change. Not exactly a high proc rate.

Anyone tested if it scales on weapon ratio?

Vrolok

I would love to say what I am thinking about the new cleric spells… I will first take a 24 hour cool down then, I may buy my spells again and try it out. Let’s just say this wasn’t executed as well as the Druid changes.

Denerik

Is it just me or does this class deep dive in no way reflect the stated goals of the class overview?

Where's the making armor matter for clerics? Is this just the long awaited AC fix that every class needed?

Where's the unique utility? You gutted all the meaningful utility.

You gave clerics a spell that increases their chance to block, but they STILL do not have access to the block skill; this has been brought up several times in discord since ALPHA. Similarly, and almost as long of an issue, you give clerics an ability that keys off Might and don't give them access to the Might skill. This invalidates both their new block spell and their might ability.

Not reducing the cost of the spells to 1c this update, while doing so for the two previous class update patches, really hits home that nobody on the dev team plays or cares about clerics. We're told these changes are tested internally before being pushed to the beta, but are they? If they are, how do you still overlook that two essential skills are missing from the class? Is the internal testing simply "press-a-button-thing-happens" or do you actually test to see that the thing is doing what you intend for it to do? It definitely doesn't appear to be the latter.

But it's ok, Druids now have even more utility and flexibility with their two new Mantles. Just delete the Cleric class if you don't want us to play them.

Ahkilles

Can't train block at the Cleric Trainer.

Ahkilles

So i just did some testing and the class is basically the exact same minus some of our protection CD's.
I've loved all the reworks so far but the Cleric one seems pretty lazy."

Remove a bunch of spells, give them block, a longer duration of their buff, Circle of healing and a fancy proc on their 1 melee ability.

That's it, that's the change.

NotFlourishing

Ahkilles Yep.

Losing Oath alone is enough to make this entire deep dive/patch of changes for the Cleric to be a pretty massive net negative, despite the few things they did gain.

sumofunk

I logged in and checked out the new spell line up. I can see what the designers did with spreading out the abilities over the level ranges, and I actually think this is an overall smart move with the current ability spread. I can see starting on a fresh server and really looking forward to getting those abilities at the current interval they're unlocked at. (I wont be playing until the abilities are reduced to 1c so I can rebuy them, lol, cuz i'm broke)

I think it would be nice to have more flavour with our buffing ability... Thematically, I would figure adding an increased resistance to fear effects, and an increase to Stamina or AC as part of a buff - to make our target healthy and hearty with bold courage.

I think the summoned hammer is relatively moot and a mostly pointless / probably never gonna get used in a meaningful situation... so in terms of consolidating things, rework this or remove it. I think it would be rad if we could INSTEAD buff someone for a short duration (like 2, 4, or 10 minutes) with a Holy Blessed Weapon buff that deals increased damage to undead, and/or has a rare chance to stun undead for 1 second. I think really leaning into the Holy vs Undead theme is super cool.

To be honest, I don't think you should remove anything vs undead that clerics get, and if anything add more of it. Snare was neat, so is root, invisibility, heavy undead nuking, etc. Being able to fill that niche against undead is CLASS IDENTITY, and it rocks.

Regarding healing and melee, I think clerics should have the option to play either way; "primarily med and heal" or "get in the melee fray between heals", the trade off should be balanced. Obviously for a rigorously paced group where the cleric is the only healer, they will need to dedicate to meditation and healing. Where there are 2 healers, the cleric could be seen nuking or getting in melee between heals. Personally I love to roll with a 2h Mace and crack a basic attack and a Holy Strike between heals and meditation.

I think it would be cool if clerics had an ability that shared a cooldown with the holy nuking skill line, but instead gave them a short term buff that increased their melee and blocking output, and regenerated mana on hits and blocks. This would allow them to DPS in a unique fashion while balancing sustain over dps (just food for thought example). That said, it's starts to get into Paladin territory, so...

This game is pretty amazing so far. You guys are making something great. Please know that and let it be your guiding compass when things get rough. And to be totally honest, this release for clerics was rough, but nothing that cant be patched up 😉 We're in beta.

Cheers to M&M dev.

Jerri

My 2 cents on what is wrong with cleric. Sure they have great heals. They can throw one heal on the tank and boom he's full health. Then the cleric sits down and meds. It's boring as hell.

Give the class some utility.

A heal over time (HoT)
Something akin to Mark of Kahn (eq clerics know this) that was extremly useful for cancelling out a damage shield, we all know the pain of damage shields once you start getting higher levels.
An "Oh Shit" heal that is 1 second cast time, but maybe a little more mana intensive

Just some ideas that came into my head how I would have seen the rework happen.

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