Are Shaman even shaman now?

Growlron

Fell AT WHAT POINT DID I EVER SAY TO REMOVE SLOW FROM THE ENCHANTER???????

When did I say you did?

Glad you asked.. right here..

Fell you can't give just one single class in the game the ability to slow mobs.

At no point did I say only shaman should have slow. At no point did I say enchanter should lose slow. In fact my argument was the exact opposite of what you insinuated which is that it MAKE TOTAL SENSE for enchanter to have slow.

Growlron If you were to control someones mind, you could make them believe they are weaker then they are, they are slower, they cant move, confuse them into thinking an ally is an enemy. You could influence their behavior. you could increase or decrease their intelligence or wisdom. But mind control cant make someone magically stronger or faster.

It makes sense for enc to buff Charisma, Int, and Wis. All the debuffs make sense. Charm makes sense. Remove STR and Haste. That atleast gives shaman more identity.

DIRECTLY FROM NWC Shaman page

"Has the strongest physical buff suite in the roster, capable of enhancing strength, speed, and endurance"

To have the strongest physical buff suite.. they have to have.. the strongest physical buff suite.

Strength: AFTER rework.. shaman and enchanter have the same STR buff at 20
Speed: AFTER rework.. shaman has a slower haste then enchanter 45% vs 55%
Endurance: AFTER rework.. shaman can buff STAM 20 and enchanter can not.

Based on the enchanters CURRENT physical buff suite, shaman and enchanter are basically equal. Shaman has endurance.. enchanter has faster speed. Based on Shamans class page and Enchanters class page, it doesnt make sense for enchanter to have a STR buff. And while I think it also doesnt make sense for them to have a speed buff... IF shaman had 20 STR and STAM, 45% speed. And enchanter has just 55% speed, then shaman would have the clearly strongest physical buff suite.

"The Enchanter is a master of mental influence"
"Less: Generic utility spells that don't reflect the Enchanter's focus on mental influence and control"

Based on the lore and vision on enchanter.. you cant bewitch someones mind into being stronger then they are. Their physical body is as strong as it can be. Controlling their brain and saying.. youre stronger doesnt make sense.

ALL the debuffs make sense. If I control your mind and tell you that you are slower or weaker, your brain can force you to slow down or feel week.

Mind control and mental influence as a theme have constraints.

RECEIPTS AND EVIDENCE
https://monstersandmemories.com/class-shaman
https://monstersandmemories.miraheze.org/wiki/Greater_Rite_of_Haste
https://monstersandmemories.miraheze.org/wiki/Swiftness
https://monstersandmemories.miraheze.org/wiki/Berserkers_Wrath
https://monstersandmemories.miraheze.org/wiki/Exceptional_Strength
https://monstersandmemories.com/class-enchanter

Growlron

Fell

Fell Again, this has been on their website as defining traits for shaman for a long time:

I provided time stamps. stop lying.

We have 3 pet classes out of 18 classes. That is 16.67% that is not even remotely too many.

Enchanter and Druid having charm is fine.

Shaman having a Spirit pet fits thematically and makes it the only healer with a pet. Giving it stronger identity and parity from druid.

Follow my suggestion and make it a NONCOMBAT pet. Giving it even more parity from the other pet classes that have combat pets. And parity from druid charm pets.

https://forum.monstersandmemories.com/d/554-shaman-re-rework

Fell

@Growlron

We have 3 pet classes out of 18 classes. That is 16.67% that is not even remotely too many.

Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Necro, Elementalist, Enchanter, Druid, Beastmaster have them now. Add back shaman pet and that's 1/3 of the classes in the game ... and if you return the shaman pet, you're just begging for SKs to get their pet back also. A SK is just a tanking necro, so why shouldn't they have one too?

I provided time stamps. stop lying.

Your time stamps demonstrate shamans have had a pet since 2024 ... NOT that this pet was "part of the vision" that NWG has expressed for many months now.

Shaman having a Spirit pet fits thematically and makes it the only healer with a pet.

You mean besides druids?

Follow my suggestion and make it a NONCOMBAT pet.

Not bad ideas for what you want the pet to DO .. but absolutely zero reason to put another graphical object on the screen and clutter things up visually.

Based on Shamans class page and Enchanters class page, it doesnt make sense for enchanter to have a STR buff

Absolutely! And I've agreed with this continually.

Fell

@Growlron

Id like to see shaman with a rez also but after they just added it to pally.. i cant see them adding it to the other healers.

I wanted to respond to this separately as it encapsulates your perception bias, which leads you to advocate for only boosts to YOUR class, rather than what makes sense gameplay-wise. Personally I think shaman should have a (much weaker) form of res ... but obviously druids should as well. Forget experience recovery. The ability to quickly reunite one dead group member with his body should NOT be so limited.

You've made 50+ posts now demanding devs "stick to their vision" -- then ask for this which is far afield that vision. Worse, you want it strictly for yourself, to make shaman more preferred for groups when, if 2 out of 3 priests have it, quite obviously the third should as well.

Growlron

Fell

Fell Are you playing the same game as the rest of us?

From NWC class documents.. 3 pet classes. druid and enchanter do not have pets.

Beastmaster: Archetype: Animal-Taming Primal Brawler Roles: Melee DPS, Pet
Elementalist: Archetype: Elemental Binder Roles: Magic DPS, Pet
Necromancer: Archetype: Master of Death Roles: Magic DPS, Pet, Utility

Druid: Archetype: Jack-of-All-Trades Caster Roles: Healer, Magic DPS, Support
Enchanter: Archetype: Masterful Conductor Roles: Crowd Control, Support, Utility

We dont have a Shadow Knight in the game anymore. They are replacing it.

Fell Your time stamps demonstrate shamans have had a pet since 2024 ... NOT that this pet was "part of the vision" that NWG has expressed for many months now.

You said day one. It has not been part of the vision since day one. It is a very very recent change. 3.5 months is not a long time as you have stated. This project has been in the works for 6.5+ years. Less then 5% of the time the project has existed.

Fell Not bad ideas for what you want the pet to DO .. but absolutely zero reason to put another graphical object on the screen and clutter things up visually.

The reasons are making shaman fun for shamans; Giving shaman identity; Aligning shaman with the theme of spirit caller; Parity from druid. Just for starters.

https://monstersandmemories.com/classes

riverbender

Growlron We dont have a Shadow Knight in the game anymore. They are replacing it.

the silent victim of the enchanter nerfs

Growlron

Fell

Yes id love to see shaman have rez. Sue me. Its not bias, it makes sense for the class and the game. I cant see them adding it to the class as I stated, and they have been very consistent about rez being restricted to cleric as far back as I can remember. Im not making post after post asking for rez. I understand shaman and druid wont have rez unless they make an internal change to their class design vision. I said this solely based on you bringing it up.

Wanting something and advocating something are two very different things.

I dont even care enough bout rez to make arguments for why it shouldnt be limited to cleric pally.

Fell

@Growlron

From NWC class documents.. 3 pet classes. druid and enchanter do not have pets.

I'm starting to suspect mental disease. I'm literally online right now with my enchanter pet, and my druid partner has a pet also.

It has not been part of the vision since day one. It is a very very recent change.

The very patch that added shaman wolf was the same patch that removed Shaman 55% haste. You want the haste back ... but demand the pet because "its been that way a long time"?

The reasons [for shaman pet] are making shaman fun for shamans; Giving shaman identity ... Parity from druid.

You just argued druids don't have pets ... now you want a shaman pet because ... druids have pets?

/smh.

Growlron

Fell Those arent pets. You dont have pet classes. The Design documents prove that.

Charm =/= Pet

I didnt say anything about haste. Im just reading what NWC said. They said shaman have the strongest physical buffs.. well thats not true unless shaman gets a buff or enchanter gets a nerf... or both. What I want is consistency in what was stated and what is done. And for my class to be playable.

I have specifically stated druids dont have pets. numerous times. stop lying.

Growlron

riverbender

I dont know how NWC decided to completely ruin both classes I enjoyed playing.. but here we are.

Like id be angry if it was just the shaman.. but id go play shadow knight.. but they are ruining that too.. so I guess Im just not playing.

riverbender

Growlron
I don't get it either What an 11th hour change. Like one day they woke up and washed their faces and looked themselves in the eye in the mirror and said "I want Shadow Knight to be Monster Hunter now." Okay? So call it Monster Hunter then because I don't know what "shadow" has to do with it any more. Whatever you want to call it, loss of pet fear kiting is a big loss.
Condolences, stop demanding enchanter nerfs, thanks lol

Growlron

riverbender LOLOL

Listen. its not me.

NWCs class visions dictate what should happen. Im just pointing out one of MANY MANY MANY failures of NWC to do what they said when it comes to shaman.

People keep wondering why Im angry.. Im angry that every deep dive has been EXTREMELY consistent with the class announcements except for shaman. Every class that departed from the class announcement has an explanation as to why they changed their minds or altered course.. except for the shaman.

The shaman is the most phoned in, unfulfilled BS. Just a joke at this point.

Zorg

Growlron enchanters dont have pets?

Its literally just had its deep dive and you can summon a pet.
You lose all credibility with statements like this.

Yes, i can see what NWC has put. Dont be so dense and daft. They clearly have pets

Growlron

Zorg No.

Really odd they would add a pet to a non pet class dont you think?

Isnt that why SK, Shaman, and druid lost their pets?

Zorg

Growlron you need to step away friend.

Enchanter has always been a pet class. Right since its very first inception.

Growlron

Zorg Not according to NWC. Its not a pet class.

Growlron

Zorg Thanks for letting me know though. I havent read the Enc and Bard deep dives. Im sure there will be plenty for me to yell about in them.

Fell

Growlron

I havent read the Enc and Bard deep dives. Im sure there will be plenty for me to yell about in them.

This from the person who's repeatedly said "if you're not a shaman, shut up about the class"

BTW, the enchanter deep dive just nerfed the charm pet into near-unusability, cut our pacify line from unlimited mobs down to one, and now is charging us six silver every 35 minutes to buff a party. Compared to that, shamans made out like bandits on the deep dive.

odz

this shit is unreadable

Growlron

Fell sigh.. its like you dont even get it man.

Im I am reading the other class deep dives.. and I am yelling..

its gonna be about...... what? take a guess.

Dont spoil it for yourself.. I believe you can figure it out.

Answer below.

If I am yelling, it will be about how shaman got screwed compared to other characters. It will be about how other deep dives are consistent with the class vision and shaman got fucked. It will be about how a NONPET CLASS has a pet and shaman got screwed out of their pet. It will be about how the shaman class write up was wholesale ignored.

I will NOT be in other class forums trying to RUIN the fun of a class for others. Unlike half the fly by nights in the shaman forums who DONT EVEN PLAY THE FUCKING CLASS.

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